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Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

reuters.com

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Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#121

Post by genocidicbunny »

BeetleB wrote: post #105
HarryHirsch wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Operating procedure at a former workplace in Texas was that during a Tornado Warning sheltering in a designated tornado shelter was mandatory . The question should be: was there a tornado warning, and was there any employee not in a tornado room?

> Operating procedure at a former workplace in Texas was that during a Tornado Warning sheltering in a designated tornado shelter was mandatory. See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29526164 It was mandatory where I worked too. That most people didn't seek shelter was not a fault of the employer.

It absolutely was the fault of the employer. There are plenty of things the employer could have done to make seeking shelter the more attractive option. Halt and Safe all the machines. Push back any imminent deadlines to account for the shutdown so the employees can avoid worrying about any consequences from a production delay. Provide adequate shelter that employees would feel comfortable with.

Yes, you can't force everyone, but I would bet that most people would take shelter given the right incentives/exception from negative consequences.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#122

Post by AlbertCory »

gerdesj wrote: post #70

"Six Amazon.com Inc (AMZN.O) workers were confirmed dead on Saturday after a series of tornadoes roared through a warehouse near St Louis, ripping off its roof and causing 11-inch thick concrete walls longer than football fields to collapse on themselves." Horrific. A wall that size cannot possibly survive a big wind. Cannot.

Question: what was the peak wind speed? Is it more than a hurricane's, or less?

The next question is: do they have stricter building codes in Florida, such that this storm wouldn't have knocked down warehouses?

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#123

Post by baybal2 »

coryrc wrote: post #117
gerdesj wrote: post #70

"Six Amazon.com Inc (AMZN.O) workers were confirmed dead on Saturday after a series of tornadoes roared through a warehouse near St Louis, ripping off its roof and causing 11-inch thick concrete walls longer than football fields to collapse on themselves." Horrific. A wall that size cannot possibly survive a big wind. Cannot.

Point me to a warehouse currently built in the US that would survive this.

I am not sure about US warehouses, but somewhere else it will surely will.

Any seismic regulation would've probably completely blasted a building where roof is not held in place in tension. In general, remains seem to lack any continuous reinforcement in between panels. Only flimsy fasteners held them together.

USA is a land of contradictions, and its building codes are no exception.

They write 100 pages sections of building codes regarding fire resistance, down to mandating which kinds of doorknobs can be installed, and then allow people building stuff from plywood.

Same for building in hurricane/tornado areas. It's absolutely nobrainer how to build buildings capable of withstanding any imaginable hurricane.

But instead of just banning anything not built from reinforced concrete, or steel, they keep trying to "rationalise" building methods which would still have zero chances surviving a tornado, even if laden with every reinforcement imaginable.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#124

Post by Waterluvian »

SECProto wrote: post #114
dylan604 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The fall of TV You mean in your daily in-take of media? Local TV stations are required to broadcast weather. It's actually part of their licensing. So if you're not in the habit of turning on the local station because of crappy programming (like me), then you should at least be willing to find a local station during weather. Even if regular programming is on, they will break in when requested by the NWS. Local radio…

> So if you're not in the habit of turning on the local station because of crappy programming (like me), then you should at least be willing to find a local station during weather. How would I even go about doing that? The only display devices I have are monitors. Even for radio, I would have to go to my car to listen.

FM radio and ATSC TV are still things despite the presence of new media. And the hardware is cheaper than it’s ever been. A television is like fifty or sixty bucks on sale. It’s ridiculous. I remember as a kid so badly wanting a small 12” TV and it was like $250.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#125

Post by enragedcacti »

gizmo686 wrote: post #65
genocidicbunny wrote: post #5

Unfortunate that the title got cut off: "Six Amazon workers killed after tornadoes reduce warehouse near St. Louis to rubble" But the bigger story here is that despite multiple warnings of dangerous weather, the workers at this warehouse still ended up having to choose between risking their life or being fired/written up for refusing to come in. They didn't feel like they had the power to say "No, I won't work becaus…

What is the counter factual where the workers' don't risk their lives? My intuition is that an Amazon warehouse is safer than a typical home during a tornado. And many homes were completely destroyed during this event as well. With the benifit of hindsight, it would have been better if no one was at that particular warehouse. But we can only say that because we know where the tornado hit with an accuracy that is no w…

My understanding is that a house with a basement or other underground structure is likely far safer than the warehouse floor. Without a basement you are at much more risk but there are ways to personally mitigate risk like tornado straps and reinforced garage doors.

> The safest place to be is a reinforced concrete building, but if that’s not an option a basement really is your best bet. An analysis of the Oklahoma tornado outbreak of May 1999, which featured an EF5 (i.e., scale-topping monster) twister, found that out of 40 deaths, 133 severe injuries, and 265 minor injuries, the total harm inflicted on people holed up in basements amounted to just one minor injury.

https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/217899/straight-dope...

not sure where they sourced from but shouldn't be too hard to find given the exact numbers quoted.

The ideal scenario is that the warehouse would have a reinforced concrete tornado shelter (or multiple given the size) and a mandatory work stoppage whenever a tornado emergency is declared.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#126

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

SECProto wrote: post #114
dylan604 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The fall of TV You mean in your daily in-take of media? Local TV stations are required to broadcast weather. It's actually part of their licensing. So if you're not in the habit of turning on the local station because of crappy programming (like me), then you should at least be willing to find a local station during weather. Even if regular programming is on, they will break in when requested by the NWS. Local radio…

> So if you're not in the habit of turning on the local station because of crappy programming (like me), then you should at least be willing to find a local station during weather. How would I even go about doing that? The only display devices I have are monitors. Even for radio, I would have to go to my car to listen.

If you can get an antenna up then there are Ethernet-connected HDTV tuners you can use to pick up OTA.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#127

Post by bargle0 »

StevePerkins wrote: post #30
suqiifkfkg wrote: post #15

Are Amazon workers somehow special that they get upvoted on HN. What a bizarre, bizarre society we're living in.

There are five sure paths to the HN front page: 1. Material about Big Tech being evil. 2. Material about how to get hired in Big Tech. 3. "_______ written in Rust". 4. Cities good, cars bad, Elon's good. 5. Typography.

Don’t forget the endless stories about APL and its derivatives.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#128

Post by HarryHirsch »

BeetleB wrote: post #105
HarryHirsch wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Operating procedure at a former workplace in Texas was that during a Tornado Warning sheltering in a designated tornado shelter was mandatory . The question should be: was there a tornado warning, and was there any employee not in a tornado room?

> Operating procedure at a former workplace in Texas was that during a Tornado Warning sheltering in a designated tornado shelter was mandatory. See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29526164 It was mandatory where I worked too. That most people didn't seek shelter was not a fault of the employer.

That most people didn't seek shelter was not a fault of the employer.

Funny you say that. One my my current responsibilities is chemical safety (it's written in the offer letter), and recently I contributed to a colleague getting called on the carpet by HR. I have no doubt that were there any serious injuries in any laboratory HR and counsel would wish to talk to me, and I have no desire for such a conversation.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#129

Post by enragedcacti »

breakfastduck wrote: post #64
genocidicbunny wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure their homes may not have been safer, but they would have had more opportunities to get to a shelter, or to find somewhere safe, as compared to having to be at work picking shelves in a warehouse built to the minimum spec/cost.

Well, they could have just... done exactly that.

Will Amazon count that as Time off Task every time the warehouse isn't hit by a tornado?

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#130

Post by throwawyag »

noah_buddy wrote: post #2

*"reduce to rubble" or "destroys" How tragic, I feel awful for their families and so close to the holidays. :(

poverty is one hell of an issue in the us. it boggles the mind how people live in such brittle homes and yet nothing changes. perhaps just like with covid “prayers” and “thoughts” are all the future dead will be given by the “freedom loving” society?
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