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Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

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Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#121

Post by HPsquared »

delecti wrote: post #49
chrisseaton wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usual problem - how do you define a journalist and how do you say whether they've been jailed for being a journalist or not.

How to define a journalist is a tough problem I can't easily solve, but I'd be inclined to say that once you do, any of them being in jail for any reason should count. The risk of overcounting the few journalists who might genuinely commit crimes unrelated to their journalism seems lower than the risk of undercounting journalists who were in reality jailed because of their journalism, but were officially for invented…

It's a bit like "cyclist": someone currently engaging in an act of journalism, like a cyclist is someone riding a bike.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#122

Post by tootie »

treeman79 wrote: post #106
tootie wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd also argue that at least some percentage of them deserve jail time. I don't feel any sympathy for someone like Judith Miller nor would I shed a tear for James O'Keefe if he is ever brought to justice. I'm sure the overwhelming number of journalists in jail are in jail for offending a despot rather than committing a real crime, but not 100%. I would actually wager that the biggest problem with this statistic is th…

So jail is fine for people you disagree with?

Jail for people who commit genuine crimes. Judith Miller and James O'Keefe are "journalists" who have pushed deliberately false stories leading to negative outcomes.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#123

Post by rodolphoarruda »

frozenlettuce wrote: post #94
rodolphoarruda wrote: post #47

Dated number for Brazil, which counts 3 imprisoned journalists in 2021, not 1.

And most people would be surprised to know that the jailed journalists (downgraded as "bloggers" by traditional media) are aligned with the right-wing government (but prosecuted by the supreme court members from the previous leftist government)

A supreme court whose members are engaged political activists is "jaw dropping" by itself.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#124

Post by jaywalk »

tc313 wrote: post #65
laydn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well a journalist -a US citizen- (Jamal Khashoggi) was killed in a foreign (Saudi) embassy; evidence (including, Audio evidence) was presented of the killing and was found to be credible, CIA concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing.... then.... what happened? Nothing. In a world where you can kill a US journalist so brazenly without any repercussions, would you be surprised journalis…

Not to notpick, but while Khashoggi was a US resident, he was not a US citizen.

That's not a nitpick, it's a very important point. It doesn't justify the killing in any way, but it does shed some light on why the US response was what it was.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#125

Post by _vertigo »

tootie wrote: post #122
treeman79 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So jail is fine for people you disagree with?

Jail for people who commit genuine crimes. Judith Miller and James O'Keefe are "journalists" who have pushed deliberately false stories leading to negative outcomes.

Are you saying they deserve jail time for that? That the government should be able to jail journalists if they publish "deliberately false stories leading to negative outcomes"? Do you think that might have any sort of ramifications on the freedom of the press?

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#126

Post by Spivak »

cblconfederate wrote: post #119
Spivak wrote: post #86

My hot take is that is actually a good thing, not because I want to see journalists in jail but because it means that journalists are actually doing things that upset the established order enough for them to be thrown in jail. It’s a huge improvement from the typical corporate journalist writing listicles and rewording press releases off newswires. Investigative journalism isn’t a legally protected activity and the n…

this is in no way a good thing, the world is supposed to be moving forward towards greater freedoms

Legal lawbreaking is still an oxymoron though. Any investigative journalist that operates completely within the law will uncover nothing the current powers don’t wish to allow them to know.

The whole point of civil disobedience is to break the law for the greater good knowing full well you might suffer consequences for it.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#127

Post by cblconfederate »

Spivak wrote: post #126
cblconfederate wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is in no way a good thing, the world is supposed to be moving forward towards greater freedoms

Legal lawbreaking is still an oxymoron though. Any investigative journalist that operates completely within the law will uncover nothing the current powers don’t wish to allow them to know. The whole point of civil disobedience is to break the law for the greater good knowing full well you might suffer consequences for it.

putting them in jail however means they are single-report journalists

i'm not at all sure there's an increase in investigations, authoritarianism is on the rise around the world

also, investigative journalism IS protected, however curious journalists will often cross lines

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#128

Post by gdy »

bvrmn wrote: post #25
RansomStark wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but that is a absolute statement, verging on propaganda. Of course they protect their people. For example there is significant crime in Russia, but the Russian government fields a police force that enforces the laws of Russia, jailing murderers, thieves, etc [0]. Of course there is corruption, of course some are above the law (but then is true the world over), and you need to play by the local rules, but th…

It's calculated that around 500 people is under arrest in Russia for political reasons. The only thing they did was to express disagreement with current policy.

You could say 500000 just as well. Where is the list?

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#129

Post by gdy »

bvrmn wrote: post #18
RansomStark wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but that is a absolute statement, verging on propaganda. Of course they protect their people. For example there is significant crime in Russia, but the Russian government fields a police force that enforces the laws of Russia, jailing murderers, thieves, etc [0]. Of course there is corruption, of course some are above the law (but then is true the world over), and you need to play by the local rules, but th…

I'm russian by the way. And we can get arrested for single like in social media. Please don't tell me about propaganda.

"And we can get arrested for single like in social media."

[Citation needed]

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#130

Post by gdy »

bvrmn wrote: post #22
RansomStark wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but that is a absolute statement, verging on propaganda. Of course they protect their people. For example there is significant crime in Russia, but the Russian government fields a police force that enforces the laws of Russia, jailing murderers, thieves, etc [0]. Of course there is corruption, of course some are above the law (but then is true the world over), and you need to play by the local rules, but th…

> You also have to remember that the justification for the Russian invasion of Crimea was to protect the minority Russian population living in Crimea. The only justification was to get votes in future president elections. We call this phenomenon "Crimea consensus". Current Crimea population have no access to online financial instruments (including totally Russian banking systems) and this summer was a huge crisis wit…

"this summer was a huge crisis with drinkable water"

Why didn't you say that the crisis was created by spiteful Ukraine resenting that Crimean people are mostly pro-Russian?

Has Ukraine recognized that Crimeans are Russian citizens or is it punishing people that it still considers Ukrainian citizens?

"Russian government did nothing."

[Citation needed]

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