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JetBrains Fleet: The Next-Generation IDE by JetBrains

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Re: JetBrains Fleet: The Next-Generation IDE by JetBrains

#121

Post by sleepybrett »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #88
albertzeyer wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is here just about the software architecture design. This is kind of similar to the X Server and Client architecture. Or to games like Quake 3. The server and client is by design separated, which potentially allows to run the server on some other host, and remotely connect to it. But you can host your own server. And you can also just run it locally, and locally connect to it. You can even bundle it together…

That WOULD be great, IF they open sourced the server side. Otherwise, it's just one bad day away from some manager pulling the old switcheroo, and making the server a paid "pro" thing.

They won't open source it but I imagine they will allow you to run a version of it inside your corporate firewall, at a premium price, just like their 'Code With Me' server.

Re: JetBrains Fleet: The Next-Generation IDE by JetBrains

#122

Post by curvilinear_m »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #64

I get a horrible feeling in my stomach when I see these "remote" IDE options. I am very sure that they have their benefits, coding from a thin-client machine and having an "always on" session in the cloud ... But it feels like a slow errosion of our control and ownership of our tools. Where everything is becoming a rent-seeking opportunity and good tools are made available for a monthly rent. Personally I like having…

While I don't doubt the goal is cloud, it's not the only use.

As a student, I have a desktop at one of my parents' house that I can control over ssh, this kind of features make remote development much easier and is often needed when I run an intensive task for hours. The experience with VSCode over ssh is really great. Some have pointed out local VMs, which is another use for this.

Re: JetBrains Fleet: The Next-Generation IDE by JetBrains

#123

Post by brundolf »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #64

I get a horrible feeling in my stomach when I see these "remote" IDE options. I am very sure that they have their benefits, coding from a thin-client machine and having an "always on" session in the cloud ... But it feels like a slow errosion of our control and ownership of our tools. Where everything is becoming a rent-seeking opportunity and good tools are made available for a monthly rent. Personally I like having…

I think it's the classic efficiency tradeoff. Centralizing these tools is more efficient for the vendor, for the IT department, for users. It streamlines a bunch of things.

But the tradeoff is increased risk: a single point of failure, a reduction in agency, etc.

There's no one-size-fits-all answer to this question; it depends on the individual case (not just the product, but the customer)

Re: JetBrains Fleet: The Next-Generation IDE by JetBrains

#124

Post by sirsinsalot »

brundolf wrote: post #123
sirsinsalot wrote: post #64

I get a horrible feeling in my stomach when I see these "remote" IDE options. I am very sure that they have their benefits, coding from a thin-client machine and having an "always on" session in the cloud ... But it feels like a slow errosion of our control and ownership of our tools. Where everything is becoming a rent-seeking opportunity and good tools are made available for a monthly rent. Personally I like having…

I think it's the classic efficiency tradeoff. Centralizing these tools is more efficient for the vendor, for the IT department, for users. It streamlines a bunch of things. But the tradeoff is increased risk: a single point of failure, a reduction in agency, etc. There's no one-size-fits-all answer to this question; it depends on the individual case (not just the product, but the customer)

The track record with these centralisation trends is that standalone tools get less and less features and attention then die out, leaving little choice.

I'd hate to see the existing IDEs like pycharm die

Re: JetBrains Fleet: The Next-Generation IDE by JetBrains

#125

Post by sirsinsalot »

albertzeyer wrote: post #85
sirsinsalot wrote: post #64

I get a horrible feeling in my stomach when I see these "remote" IDE options. I am very sure that they have their benefits, coding from a thin-client machine and having an "always on" session in the cloud ... But it feels like a slow errosion of our control and ownership of our tools. Where everything is becoming a rent-seeking opportunity and good tools are made available for a monthly rent. Personally I like having…

But this is here just about the software architecture design. This is kind of similar to the X Server and Client architecture. Or to games like Quake 3. The server and client is by design separated, which potentially allows to run the server on some other host, and remotely connect to it. But you can host your own server. And you can also just run it locally, and locally connect to it. You can even bundle it together…

Don't forget that we are not just talking about the IDE, but increasingly being integrated with cloud-first tools like Space ...

Re: JetBrains Fleet: The Next-Generation IDE by JetBrains

#126

Post by bathtub365 »

stefs wrote: post #98
gommm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that it would be good to dedicate a few months with no new feature and just focus on fixing all the regression bugs, there's a lot of bugs that are reported for many months to a year seemingly without activity. I used to like Intellij but got fed up and just stopped using it. Dealing with regression bugs isn't worth it. An IDE should be extremely stable, releasing new features is great but it shouldn't be to…

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-s... 5. Do you fix bugs before writing new code?

> A score of 12 is perfect, 11 is tolerable, but 10 or lower and you’ve got serious problems. The truth is that most software organizations are running with a score of 2 or 3, and they need serious help, because companies like Microsoft run at 12 full-time.

Over the weekend I spent a good chunk of a day fighting with a copy of Windows 11 for ARM preview that has a major bug wherein the Start Menu just straight-up doesn’t work. I’m not sure Microsoft is running at 12 full-time 21 years on from when this article was posted.

Re: JetBrains Fleet: The Next-Generation IDE by JetBrains

#127

Post by cuddlybacon »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #64

I get a horrible feeling in my stomach when I see these "remote" IDE options. I am very sure that they have their benefits, coding from a thin-client machine and having an "always on" session in the cloud ... But it feels like a slow errosion of our control and ownership of our tools. Where everything is becoming a rent-seeking opportunity and good tools are made available for a monthly rent. Personally I like having…

Remote IDEs aren't necessarily about subscription based SaaS. For me any editor that can't be run by ssh into a workstation within the build-farm is a non-starter.

Re: JetBrains Fleet: The Next-Generation IDE by JetBrains

#128

Post by flashgordon »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #124
brundolf wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the classic efficiency tradeoff. Centralizing these tools is more efficient for the vendor, for the IT department, for users. It streamlines a bunch of things. But the tradeoff is increased risk: a single point of failure, a reduction in agency, etc. There's no one-size-fits-all answer to this question; it depends on the individual case (not just the product, but the customer)

The track record with these centralisation trends is that standalone tools get less and less features and attention then die out, leaving little choice. I'd hate to see the existing IDEs like pycharm die

Interesting. Would/could this be a motivating function for open source alternatives?

Re: JetBrains Fleet: The Next-Generation IDE by JetBrains

#130

Post by native_samples »

axegon_ wrote: post #99

I am not sure how I feel about this. JetBrains either get things very right or very wrong. At this point I feel like there a pattern: Their desktop applications(IDEs) are usually great. However, my experience with their server-side solutions(teamcity, upsource) has been nothing short of explosive diarrhea. With the "remote" word tossed in there, I'm not entirely optimistic.

Hmm my experiences with TeamCity have been very good.
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