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Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

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Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#121

Post by mrweasel »

Robotbeat wrote: post #56
bnt wrote: post #2

So everyone is on the "Let's build a Fab in the USA" train, will that eventually bring down the chip production costs? (not an expert in the field, so asking naively)

Well in principle Texas has lower (almost half) industrial energy costs than Taiwan, which could help reduce wafer production costs especially at the lower resolution nodes. As Moore’s Law slows, things like energy and raw material costs may matter more. And having wafer plants close to fab plants can help. Rough order of magnitude, but for a lower cost wafer (think like 90nm or above, not 7nm), electricity and energ…

I was wondering why Texas keep coming up when new US fabs a being talked about. From an outsider it just looks like the low energy cost comes from failing to properly manage and upgrade the Texas energy grid.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#122

Post by pie42000 »

Robotbeat wrote: post #56
bnt wrote: post #2

So everyone is on the "Let's build a Fab in the USA" train, will that eventually bring down the chip production costs? (not an expert in the field, so asking naively)

Well in principle Texas has lower (almost half) industrial energy costs than Taiwan, which could help reduce wafer production costs especially at the lower resolution nodes. As Moore’s Law slows, things like energy and raw material costs may matter more. And having wafer plants close to fab plants can help. Rough order of magnitude, but for a lower cost wafer (think like 90nm or above, not 7nm), electricity and energ…

Why are people concerned about energy and material costs? Semiconductors are probably the highest margin manufactured goods on the planet, with materials and energy being the lowest cost input to the process. The only good that can compete is bottled water or movie theater popcorn.

This is 100% politically motivated.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#124

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

hermes8329 wrote: post #77
burnished wrote: post #13

Ok, this article quietly gets fucking wild halfway through. >> Samsung spent years evaluating where to build the new fab, courting multiple locations and pitting them against each other for better incentives. But the ultimate decision came down to Samsung Group's leader Jay Y. Lee, who was granted early parole in August expressly to speed up crucial business decisions like the Texas chip fab. Accounting for between 1…

That cult leader is a crazy story on its own. She killed a presidential nominee in a ritual Definitely check it out Oh and she used to be a popstar too

> She killed a presidential nominee in a ritual

Any source on that one?

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#125

Post by panick21_ »

phkahler wrote: post #47
colinmhayes wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protectionism makes everyone worse off.

>> Protectionism makes everyone worse off. Yeah I mean look at how China has grown the last 25 years with their fully open markets. Every approach has pluses and minuses. Putting your own first is common and healthy. The US has been failing to do this for some time now, and the economy is pinned in a corner with no easy way out.

China is now much more open then they were for a long time and as it happens their growth really started when they did that. The are 1.4 billion people who have embraced mostly 'typical capitalism' that is comparable to most countries in the world do. Its not like they are the first to have the idea of tarrifs or helping strategic industries. China has continental scale and 100s of millions of people living on the coast with billions of people in close distance to export to. Of course they are gone do well, the internal market they generate alone is absurdly gigantic.

Just like the US in the late 1800 century, they also had some protectionism. But it crazy to suggest that is the main reason why they were successful.

Nobody says government should make important technology investment, have some strategic supply chain and so on. However just blanked Trump style protectionism across random industries is not really the solution to anything.

> Putting your own first is common and healthy.

This is a myth of what protectionism achieves. You protect some sector but potentially damaging other sectors considerably. The US protects Flordia suger farmers and as a result everybody else pays more for sugar.

Most of the time its groups that can lobby effectively that get tariffs and those groups then profit against the benefit of everybody else.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#126

Post by diveanon »

theduder99 wrote: post #120
diveanon wrote: post #67

Seems strange to build a chip plant in a place that can’t even provide power to its citizens in winter.

I guess they know something you don't huh.

No, seems like we are all pretty aware of the kickbacks and bribery.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#127

Post by [deleted] »

josaka wrote: post #69

After the TX grid failure last winter, it's probably not a coincidence that Samsung's new facility will be near ERCOT's operation center in Taylor, which manages the TX grid, and will likely be the last load to shed when the grid's stressed. Used to work in the Austin fab, and the amount of money lost per minute in a power failure is mind boggling. The tax breaks Taylor offered ($314m) are not that different from wha…

[deleted]

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#128

Post by dnautics »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #81
guai888 wrote: post #18

‘Impossible':TSMC founder Morris Chang on US dreams for onshoring chip supply chain https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4327937 Morris Chang spent 25 years (1958–1983) at Texas Instruments.He knows US very well.

Biggest change since then are relative energy costs between Texas and Taiwan. (To say nothing of geopolitical stability.)

quote is from oct 2021

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#129

Post by ratsforhorses »

hermes8329 wrote: post #94
HideousKojima wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In particular, all of Seoul is in artillery range of the north

Rusty dusty equipment that probably won't even fire.. that offensive line is hardly a major threat

What's to stop China moving in with theirs? I mean after all they're friends and that's what happened during the lasy war...

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#130

Post by 88840-8855 »

bell-cot wrote: post #101
josaka wrote: post #69

After the TX grid failure last winter, it's probably not a coincidence that Samsung's new facility will be near ERCOT's operation center in Taylor, which manages the TX grid, and will likely be the last load to shed when the grid's stressed. Used to work in the Austin fab, and the amount of money lost per minute in a power failure is mind boggling. The tax breaks Taylor offered ($314m) are not that different from wha…

This...but did Samsung quietly negotiate a "any further energy supply f*ck-ups are 100% on YOUR dime" deal with the State of Texas, or what? By several accounts, the TX grid got darn close to collapse last winter - at which point "ERCOT Op Center is next door, and we get top priority" would not get you a single erg.

What finance guy will ever approve this? I doubt that the service agreement would ever be approved with that clause.
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