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Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

arstechnica.com

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Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#121

Post by smt88 »

gambiting wrote: post #99
smt88 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google Maps are the main(and only) map provider for the satnav Source? I've never heard of this. Maps has no relationship to the car's built-in navigation anyway. Every car I've used with Google Maps has both, but you have to pay a fee to use the built-in navigation app.

As an example- new Volvos come with Android Automotive as the main OS, and the satnav is just Google Maps. There is no alternative built in. If you don't want google services then you have no satnav at all. Since the main instrument cluster also shows Google Maps if you disable it it just stays completely empty(only displaying basic information like speed and gear you're in). Source: I drove one. Second source: https…

That's a car with "Android OS" -- it's not just some random car.

Complaining about Google Maps on that car is like complaining about Google Maps on your Google Home screen. If you buy a car that is advertised as having Google software, you're going to get Google software.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#122

Post by shadowgovt »

KronisLV wrote: post #71
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an odd way to frame it. "even though they suck" they don't suck in giving you free traffic though and your complain is that they could stop giving it?

Essentially Google has filled a vacuum where other solutions could have existed, say, something based on the OSM dataset and non-proprietary technologies - possibly a federated set of solutions for finding businesses like cafes, restaurants or shops and such. Now, it's pretty hard if not impossible to compete with them thanks to the network effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect How could any company th…

I have no particular expectation that if we were to break up Google, some kind of grand federated system would take its place.

Competitors had decades to get a federated solution together and simply didn't. Attempts got mired in squabbling over data ownership, bickering about costs and fees, failure to agree upon an open protocol, and all manner of other nonsense that Google was able to solve by being a single player and coordinating all the moving parts internally.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#123

Post by AnthonyMouse »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #104
eru wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Amazon employees are, of course, so stupid that they only even listen to propaganda and can't think for themselves.

Yeah, if only those stupid warehouse workers would listen to me , the enlightened tech worker who is making many multiples of what they are. I know what is best for you! You realize how disgustingly patronizing you sound?

The comment you're replying to is, I think, sarcastic. The point being that the Amazon employees aren't that stupid and can think for themselves. Maybe they're just not interested in joining a union that Amazon could easily allow to walk out and hire a different set of unskilled workers.

Your sibling comment is the patronizing one.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#124

Post by tablespoon »

m4rtink wrote: post #35
yosito wrote: post #29

Google Maps may silently be Alphabet's most powerful property. As someone who has spent the last 8 months religiously degoogling my life, I've found that Google Maps features are incredibly hard to replace, while at the same time, giving Google direct abilities to influence behavior in the physical world. People see it as "just a map", but it's so much more. OSM-based map tools are pretty good as maps, but they utter…

The data directory part of OSM is being improved by an interesting way: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/StreetComplete Basicaly a gamified editor that makes it easy and fun to fill in opening hours and onther important metadata while on the go. Frankly its almost addictive. :)

> Basicaly a gamified editor that makes it easy and fun to fill in opening hours and [other] important metadata while on the go. Frankly its almost addictive. :)

When I read your description, I thought that maybe it was an app that prompted you to take a picture of the operating hours sign at a store when you visit, then sends the picture to a queue for someone to do the actual entry. The actual app is entirely different, but my idea might allow even more casual users, like me, to contribute. I don't have time to play an AR game like that, but I could easily snap a few pictures or answer some simple questions when I'm on the go.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#125

Post by gambiting »

smt88 wrote: post #121
gambiting wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an example- new Volvos come with Android Automotive as the main OS, and the satnav is just Google Maps. There is no alternative built in. If you don't want google services then you have no satnav at all. Since the main instrument cluster also shows Google Maps if you disable it it just stays completely empty(only displaying basic information like speed and gear you're in). Source: I drove one. Second source: https…

That's a car with "Android OS" -- it's not just some random car. Complaining about Google Maps on that car is like complaining about Google Maps on your Google Home screen. If you buy a car that is advertised as having Google software, you're going to get Google software.

Yes, but my point is that more and more cars are scheduled to have this as default. So going forward it will be harder and harder to escape the total and complete domination of Google Maps everywhere. That's why I said regulators will have to get involved at some point.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#126

Post by charcircuit »

kibwen wrote: post #108
henvic wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess what... The more regulation, the harder it is to compete against too-big-to-fail well stablished corporations. It's like no one here ever heard what regulatory capture or lobby is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture Google is right in this case, but people will fail to recognize it, and ask for more state overreach that will end up making it harder to have multiple options in the future.

Competition is important for the well-being of consumers. However, it is in the nature of markets that over time they will experience consolidation and centralization, due to the benefits of network effects and economies of scale. This consolidation reduces competition, harming consumers. It is the necessary role of government to occasionally step in and break up such companies, to forcibly reintroduce competition. T…

So just because someone was so good at competing that they dominate a market that means that they should be punished? I don't think punishing success provides good incentives.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#127

Post by 93po »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #114
danuker wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all people realize the bargaining power of a huge corporation is much different than that of an individual. If a company of 100 people fires a worker, they lose 1% of productivity. If a worker loses their job, they lose 100% of income. This fundamental asymmetry makes me support unions. On top of that, the corporation can afford paying to shift people's opinions.

I don't really get this argument. You lose 100% of income, assuming this is your only job, but only until you get another one, which could be right away, and in the meantime if they terminate you without cause you get unemployment for long enough that most people will be able to find another job. Meanwhile this criticism is inversely correlated with the utility of a union. If you're in a market where the company is h…

>they can just let the union walk out and hire a bunch of different unskilled fungible peons. So it doesn't work for e.g. Amazon warehouse workers

there's no way Amazon could come close to functioning if their warehouse workers unionized and walked out. it would take them years to find enough people to fully staff their warehouses again and it'd cost them billions of dollars

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#128

Post by m4rtink »

tablespoon wrote: post #124
m4rtink wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data directory part of OSM is being improved by an interesting way: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/StreetComplete Basicaly a gamified editor that makes it easy and fun to fill in opening hours and onther important metadata while on the go. Frankly its almost addictive. :)

> Basicaly a gamified editor that makes it easy and fun to fill in opening hours and [other] important metadata while on the go. Frankly its almost addictive. :) When I read your description, I thought that maybe it was an app that prompted you to take a picture of the operating hours sign at a store when you visit, then sends the picture to a queue for someone to do the actual entry. The actual app is entirely diffe…

The Street Complete supports that as well - you can add a note with an (optional) picture and many of the "quests" have that option as well.

In the past I have created a few of those ("gate is no longer there"/"way is blocked by trees", "there is a new ATM at this spot") and some of them have already been addressed (you get an email when it happens).

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#129

Post by authed »

mariushn wrote: post #47
authed wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hovering over an ad link on Chrome, it shows in bottom bar the link as going to brand.com . How can this be done, it's just an ? Inspecting or right-click shows the true link to www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk... Google has been doing this since forever (for any search results too)... They update the link target on-click using javascript to be able to track everything you click on.

Thanks for clarification.

no problem... I always hated this about Google... feels deceptive... I wish that it was not even possible to change the destination of a link when you click on it (most people probably don't even notice it).

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#130

Post by weeblewobble »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #61
yosito wrote: post #29

Google Maps may silently be Alphabet's most powerful property. As someone who has spent the last 8 months religiously degoogling my life, I've found that Google Maps features are incredibly hard to replace, while at the same time, giving Google direct abilities to influence behavior in the physical world. People see it as "just a map", but it's so much more. OSM-based map tools are pretty good as maps, but they utter…

I think OSM is amazing. Way better at mapping than Google. When I hike I'm just walking in a green square in Google maps. OSM has every trail and hillslope etc. But what OSM lacks is real-time integration with public transport. If my bus is slow or redirected Google will tell me. I don't think this can be improved by the users. It really needs a data feed from the transport operators :'(

In Seattle at least, Google Maps real time public transport support was way behind an app called OneBusAway which was built as a graduate project by students at the University of Washington (https://opentransitsoftwarefoundation.org/overview/history/)

I had this app for at least a year before Google Maps released similar functionality. I still use it occasionally as the UX is better if you already know what bus stop you want to use.

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