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NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

erickhun.com

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Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most plausible conspiracy theories I've heard is that the big sales ($1 million plus) are wash trades, ("sell" an object to a confederate for 500 ETH, then they transfer the money right back via another route) and some classic money laundering Now of course there's a mountain of clueless suckers kicking off a regular tulip mania-style bubble. I wonder how many more weeks it will last.

Like this $500,000,000 flash loan backed wash trade of punk 9998. [1] [1] https://news.artnet.com/art-world/crypto-punk-500-million-sa...

that's not a wash trade.. it was just a publicity stunt. I know the guy who did it!

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of NFT is not scam, but the current scene is more like it. Not exactly like scam but more like a super-hyped balloon.

I'd expect better technical foundation to sell something so expensive. Like guaranteed formats, guarantees for storing hashes, unique guarantees, some kind of image perceptual hash, some kind of P2P distributed storage for data itself. So even non-technical buyer can be sure that goods he bought are protected. Right now you need to ensure that NFT data is stored on IPFS, you need to ensure that IPFS data including th…

Sure, I agree with your technical foundation views.

What I meant is that the basic idea of NFTs is promising, but the current implementation is nothing practical.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#123

I hate to admit it but I’m still struggling to understand why people would pay so much for NFTs. I feel like I fully understand what they are and why most people want me to believe it has value but I still don’t agree. I’m waiting for my mind to change but it hasn’t happened yet. It’s frustrating because so many people I respect are leaving their high paying jobs to work in web3 startups around NFTs and I feel dumb f…

Think about collectables in the real world, and imagine how they could possibly work in the digital world. For example, people collect trading cards for various sports, and there is 1 owner per card who can trade/sell the card to others. How would you facilitate this idea in the digital world? Well you can't use a regular database, because it's easy for it to be hacked/shutdown, and if it's run by a third-party then…

I’ve unfortunately forgotten who it was I saw making this argument, but: why would you want that? We, as a society, finally figured out how to eliminate scarcity of (most forms of) media. New works are being produced at unprecedented rates. What is the social value of reimposing scarcity, beyond an appeal to our (possibly culturally instilled) desire for exclusive possession?

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#124
People seem to gloss over the first example (Project Memento) which I think is a great example where NFTs make sense. It's just a configuration with a fixed value (the coordinates) and a dynamic value you can actually change yourself (the letter). Other apps and games can use the same NFTs to build something different based on the same coordinates.

Let's say I build a war game where Project Memento NFTs decide ownership of land on map. The blockchain is an open API and players just need to connect their wallets to my game in order to play. HyperDragons eating CryptoKitties to grow stronger is a good example of one app using NFTs from another.

Art NFTs on the other hand are more like digital signatures. It doesn't really matter what is stored in the NFT. What gives it value is the fact that it was minted by X (where X can be an artist or a service). Yeah, you can use IPFS or store a hash but what's the point? You're buying the bragging rights, nothing else.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#125
post #117

I hate to admit it but I’m still struggling to understand why people would pay so much for NFTs. I feel like I fully understand what they are and why most people want me to believe it has value but I still don’t agree. I’m waiting for my mind to change but it hasn’t happened yet. It’s frustrating because so many people I respect are leaving their high paying jobs to work in web3 startups around NFTs and I feel dumb f…

I think a lot of it is to just support artists. A kind of charity from universe for artist to continue doing what they are doing. People who are making big money on NFT are already established artists. With physical art, artist sells it once and has no idea where it is. With NFTs, artists can set up royalties for every sale. With block chain, if you can verify address of artist then as a buyer you can guarantee that…

> I think a lot of it is to just support artists.

To me that assertion, albeit convenient to paint a rosy picture, doesn't make any sense. No one needs a convoluted technical scheme to support artists as donating cash is easy and effortless. Buying the rights to a work from an artist also does not require a convoluted technical scheme, and considering that NFTs haven't been used to enforce any right then that hypothesis is also highly dubious.

What NFTs offer is the ability to perform transactions, and ones which don't have any artist or provenance in consideration.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#126
I believe it really boils down to consensus. If enough entities in a community "accepts" some platform/publisher as valid, those collectibles created by those entities (which can easily be validated on the chain) will have subjective value. Just like money: it's a piece of paper but enough people/companies/governments legally accept it so that paper now has a value more than it's physical components. I can print money too but it will be fake and worthless, even if I print it on a more expensive paper. An NFT is just some bits on a blockchain after all, but when enough people accept those "bits" by a particular entity, they are worth something. Sure anyone can clone/copy paste those JPEGs and mint them just as I can print dollars on my home printer, but as long as they aren't issued by an entity that many trust (e.g. A legally accepted central bank) they are worthless. Which in this case community is free to choose their central bank and currency, and change if they have the interest, creating a whole new economic system.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#127
post #76

>ERC-721 is the standard that dictates how one should create an NFT. Each ERC721 NFT must have a tokenURI field, that is an external link to a JSON file stored on an external server ... You can notice the image field, which is a link to an image. Not just a link, a link to a link! And when that server goes down next year, all those JSON files will vanish.

I mean, as the article mentions, you could store the image on the chain. Or at least a Hash of the image to prevent a bait-and-switch. But it would cost too much of added gas fees and the average user wouldn't understand the difference.

> But it would cost too much of added gas fees(...)

If your goal was honestly to just buy art, why would "gas fees" matter? They only matter in a scenario involving wash trades and high rates of transactions involving small deltas in price.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#128
post #125
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of it is to just support artists. A kind of charity from universe for artist to continue doing what they are doing. People who are making big money on NFT are already established artists. With physical art, artist sells it once and has no idea where it is. With NFTs, artists can set up royalties for every sale. With block chain, if you can verify address of artist then as a buyer you can guarantee that…

> I think a lot of it is to just support artists. To me that assertion, albeit convenient to paint a rosy picture, doesn't make any sense. No one needs a convoluted technical scheme to support artists as donating cash is easy and effortless. Buying the rights to a work from an artist also does not require a convoluted technical scheme, and considering that NFTs haven't been used to enforce any right then that hypothe…

Universe rewards creativity

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#129
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most plausible conspiracy theories I've heard is that the big sales ($1 million plus) are wash trades, ("sell" an object to a confederate for 500 ETH, then they transfer the money right back via another route) and some classic money laundering Now of course there's a mountain of clueless suckers kicking off a regular tulip mania-style bubble. I wonder how many more weeks it will last.

> The most plausible conspiracy theories I've heard is that the big sales ($1 million plus) are wash trades, ("sell" an object to a confederate for 500 ETH, then they transfer the money right back via another route) and some classic money laundering I'm not sure if the link between NFTs and money laundering can be downplayed as conspiracy theory. Even yesterday Reuters published a newspiece on NFTs being auctioned by…

Well regular art sales are currently considered as potential wash sales, so why would be something even more cryptic (haha) considered even less.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#130

I hate to admit it but I’m still struggling to understand why people would pay so much for NFTs. I feel like I fully understand what they are and why most people want me to believe it has value but I still don’t agree. I’m waiting for my mind to change but it hasn’t happened yet. It’s frustrating because so many people I respect are leaving their high paying jobs to work in web3 startups around NFTs and I feel dumb f…

I think you have to look at art and collecting art in general to get an idea of what is happening. When rich people spend big money on art, it is less about having a nice painting and more about things like flexing wealth, tax avoidance, being part of the provenance or whatever. People think that the most expensive painting ever sold, Salvator Mundi, which sold for ~450m, is sitting in storage somewhere in Switzerland. You also have to consider that for these people, it isn't actually a lot of money for them. They are the foundation for the mania that dogpiles on top.

These early NFTs are going to be like the early works of an art movement, and the iconic ones are probably going to be valuable to some degree just because of their place in art history. The art world has probably been waiting for the next kind of innovative movement to come along too. It is sort of a self fulfilling prophecy in that the ones that are bought for absurd amounts of money create the buzz that solidifies them as iconic pieces of the movement. Most will probably end up being worthless.

Art NFTs are like a tiny proof of concept of the idea of NFTs having value. The space, like crypto, is like a sandbox of primitives and people are just figuring things out, throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. That creative environment is probably alluring to people in boring dev jobs who have the financial flexibility to explore. I think it just looks stupid to many because it is basically a completely chaotic wild west where basically nobody knows what is actually going on in terms of a big picture, and so much dumb stuff happens which the media loves talking about for clickbait so that is what everyone sees and uses to form their opinion of it.

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