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Finishing my first game while working full-time

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Re: Finishing my first game while working full-time

#121

Post by markus_zhang »

caymanjim wrote: post #70
markus_zhang wrote: post #15

I tried to complete a simple 2D RPG that is a Ultima spinoff a few years ago. Nothing is technically impossible as it's just a simple 2D game but eventually I lost interest and broke away. Now that I look back, there are two obstacles: - I'm not really interested in such a game. I probably fancied about the genre as it's classic but I never finished any of the Ultima games. - In the middle I tried to implement a full…

> I also find out that once I know how to implement something on paper (e.g. if I can draw the process of an algorithm on paper), I usually lost the interest to implement it in code. This is a perpetual problem for me. I start out interested in a lot of things, but once it's clear how to proceed, I get no pleasure out of the rote work required to implement the solution. Whether it's writing code, building something p…

Yeah exactly. I have been going on like this for almost 40 years and recently I decided to take a different approach:

- Stop working on projects that I know for sure I can't finish, basically that means I'll work on zero CS projects.

- Start hobbies that are either 1) Not of same type of CS projects, or 2) Something that takes a long time to understand.

I have been collecting fossils and learning Geology for a few months and so far it goes well: - Collecting fossils is easy to start

- It's very difficult to find good places to collect and even more difficult to collect very well preserved fossils

- I don't get to collect fossils every day, not even every week if the whether is bad, so zero chance of burning out

- Geology is not something that one can "figure out". In general science is not something I can "figure out" and then apply. It's not engineering.

However I still want to work on CS projects because I need an in-door hobby for the winter, maybe some day I can figure out a way :)

Good luck on your side too!

Re: Finishing my first game while working full-time

#122

Post by awkward »

ca6d8815 wrote: post #12

Good tips... but in reality if you're working full-time (especially in a software related role), you may find yourself depleted before you get to the keyboard. It took us 5 years to finish our game (everyone started from 0 knowledge on how to make games, so it was a rocky road), and for the last 1.5-2 years my life was absolute hell. I'd push hard at work for 9 hours a day, eat, then push hard on the side project for…

Keeping the side project work different from day to day work is huge, too.

- Frameworks are great when you need to keep a team to a standard, and keep standardized answers available. There's no way I'm going to debug someone else's dependency errors on my own time though.

- Dev tools and automation are nice to have, but if I spend a whole night fixing tooling that's time I could have spent on the project. Some loose unit testing and tools that work without configuration is all that's I'm willing to use.

- A while ago I would have said that paid tooling is worth it if it saves you time. Open source and freemium products have gotten good enough now that that's no longer the case for a small enough dev team.

Re: Finishing my first game while working full-time

#123

Post by nwsm »

mehphp wrote: post #95
core-utility wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This book Finish by Jon Acuff is a great book on practicing finishing. He also has Start for the very opposite. https://www.amazon.com/Finish-Give-Yourself-Gift-Done/dp/052...

I've ironically only read about half of Finish

This sounds like something I'd do

Re: Finishing my first game while working full-time

#124

Post by caymanjim »

markus_zhang wrote: post #121
caymanjim wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also find out that once I know how to implement something on paper (e.g. if I can draw the process of an algorithm on paper), I usually lost the interest to implement it in code. This is a perpetual problem for me. I start out interested in a lot of things, but once it's clear how to proceed, I get no pleasure out of the rote work required to implement the solution. Whether it's writing code, building something p…

Yeah exactly. I have been going on like this for almost 40 years and recently I decided to take a different approach: - Stop working on projects that I know for sure I can't finish, basically that means I'll work on zero CS projects. - Start hobbies that are either 1) Not of same type of CS projects, or 2) Something that takes a long time to understand. I have been collecting fossils and learning Geology for a few mo…

Interesting that you chose geology, as I often think that I'd have been happier as a geologist. I imagine there's a risk of getting bored with that as well, if it's your day job and you're doing the same sort of rote work all the time. In my fantasy, the primary appeal is that it's almost the opposite of sitting at a desk, except I suspect most professional geologists spend most of their time sitting at a desk looking at data on a computer. Seems like a fun hobby though!

Re: Finishing my first game while working full-time

#125

Post by fileeditview »

mattlondon wrote: post #91
boplicity wrote: post #34

Not discussed in the article: You have to have the support of the people in your life this will impact. For example, the 7-9am timeslot for working, as listed in the article, will impact my family, as that is when I'm getting the kids up and off to school. OK, so I could move it to 5am to 7am, but that would mean I'd need to go to bed earlier, which eliminates important evening time with my wife. Similarly, I could d…

Totally agree with this. I am woken by my kid at 6am, then it is 100% go-go-go with work or family until about 7pm when the kid goes to bed, then it is starting to cook and prepare dinner and do housework etc. There might be 2 hours or so between dinner and bed to spend time with my wife before we collapse into bed at 10pm or so - talk, watch a movie, play scrabble or whatever. I don't want to ignore her and just do…

Funny how much that sounds like my life :)

It took me some time to work out that with 2 kids now I just don't have the time for side projects anymore. It is impossible. My oldest is also a person that needs very little sleep. He stopped regular daily naps when he was about 6 months old. In the beginning of daycare (2 yo) he was the only kid in daycare that didn't sleep during the day. He also never goes to sleep before 9pm. In summer it often is 10pm or even later.

When he finally sleeps both my wife and me are just wasted. Not ever could I find energy or motivation to "work" after that.

However I still have hope for the future. When the kids grow older and do more for themselves there will be opportunities to write some fun code on the side :)

Re: Finishing my first game while working full-time

#126

Post by taormina »

markus_zhang wrote: post #43
Longwelwind wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - In the middle I tried to implement a full scale map editor. I managed to build a simple yet working one, but dropped the project once I realized that it needs a lot of work to write my own GUI (back then I'm using C++ and SDL2). Sharing my slightly unrelated experience, but Tiled2D is a nice piece of software to achieve this. I've used it for one of my personal project, where I wanted to make a digital adaptation…

Thanks, I knew about Tiled at the time. The project was kinda of a learning project so I didn't bother to use an external tool. Now that I look back, that's probably how I approach all projects (not work-related): I just want to learn how it works superficially, and once I do I'd lose motivation and drop the project eventually. Very nasty mindset I have to admit...

I mean, what finishing means is personally defined by you. If you define finishing as learning what you set out to learn, then you finished.

Re: Finishing my first game while working full-time

#127

Post by ericmcer »

Zababa wrote: post #54
the_only_law wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my line of thought for a while. You spend a minimum of 8 hours working, and ideally you get 6-8 hours of sleep. Let’s say you have a couple more daily responsibilities that take 2-4 (could be commute, cleaning, some other maintenance). There’s almost no time to do anything, and some of the hours you have left may be at non-prime times of the day. > The true optimization for becoming a more efficient per…

I've heard this called before the "4 hour life", you have 4 hours every day for yourself: https://medium.com/@pskallas/4-hour-life-glossary-4740bca641...

I wouldn’t mind if it was my 4 best hours a day, but it’s the 4 hours after work and dinner when my energy levels allow for a half effort workout and a bit of reading or TV.

Re: Finishing my first game while working full-time

#128

Post by EarthLaunch »

sershe wrote: post #106
boplicity wrote: post #34

Not discussed in the article: You have to have the support of the people in your life this will impact. For example, the 7-9am timeslot for working, as listed in the article, will impact my family, as that is when I'm getting the kids up and off to school. OK, so I could move it to 5am to 7am, but that would mean I'd need to go to bed earlier, which eliminates important evening time with my wife. Similarly, I could d…

The meta is that if you add something to your life, and you don't currently have a lot of time when you are just bored, something will have to suffer. I was wondering why I was often stressed out even though my life was good and I mostly did the things I want to do. Years ago, I had 3 things in my life - work, rock climbing, and coding/reading/videogames ("geeking out"), and I was never stressed for time. Then I got…

Health is also a factor. Health issues can take up 1 of those 'thing' slots, another thing to spend time researching and working around. I've seen it happen unexpectedly to a friend, and it was a normal part of my life for a long time. Health can also include preventative things like exercise and diet, which require mental effort (research, willpower).

Re: Finishing my first game while working full-time

#129

Post by ca6d8815 »

ffitch wrote: post #119
ca6d8815 wrote: post #12

Good tips... but in reality if you're working full-time (especially in a software related role), you may find yourself depleted before you get to the keyboard. It took us 5 years to finish our game (everyone started from 0 knowledge on how to make games, so it was a rocky road), and for the last 1.5-2 years my life was absolute hell. I'd push hard at work for 9 hours a day, eat, then push hard on the side project for…

Sounds like very intense five years! I understand you wouldn’t do it the same way again, but still, was the result in any meaningful way comparable to the effort? Do you feel comfortable sharing game name?

Yes, the result was something I have never achieved. I've been a part of a lot of projects, successful and not, but always as a participant and not as a true stakeholder.

Going from start to finish on something, and then getting the opportunity to hear from fans (and critics alike), it is still making me smile a year and a half after launch.

When they say "money isn't everything" in this case its true, but I had I (and still have) a day job. If I had bet the monetary-farm on the project, I'd be singing a different tune.

The game name is "The Shattering", there's a link below somewhere to it on Steam :)

Re: Finishing my first game while working full-time

#130

Post by markus_zhang »

caymanjim wrote: post #124
markus_zhang wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah exactly. I have been going on like this for almost 40 years and recently I decided to take a different approach: - Stop working on projects that I know for sure I can't finish, basically that means I'll work on zero CS projects. - Start hobbies that are either 1) Not of same type of CS projects, or 2) Something that takes a long time to understand. I have been collecting fossils and learning Geology for a few mo…

Interesting that you chose geology, as I often think that I'd have been happier as a geologist. I imagine there's a risk of getting bored with that as well, if it's your day job and you're doing the same sort of rote work all the time. In my fantasy, the primary appeal is that it's almost the opposite of sitting at a desk, except I suspect most professional geologists spend most of their time sitting at a desk lookin…

I browsed through some books and websites and figured that most of the work of a "general" geologist is still indoors. Some sub-variants such as palaeontologists are exceptions, but still I figured most of time is still spent in labs, not in fields.

So yeah I agree it's a good hobby.

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