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Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

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Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#121
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you have kids, I am guessing not, if I am wrong, my apologies. Knowing what your kids have due for school is not micromanaging its a core part of being a good parent. I know if my kid has a math test so it lets me sit down with him and review for his test, it allows me to ensure he knows the basis for whatever comes next in his curriculum. Terribly overbearing parents are not good but I think people a…

That's absolutely micromanaging and negative. The goal of school isn't just to pass the tests. If a kid fails to revise for a test, but it doesn't matter because their parent will just look up the schedule and force them to revise, then they learn nothing beyond what's in the test. If they fail to revise and as a result do badly at the test, then next time they might actually take the initiative and revise through th…

>That's absolutely micromanaging and negative

Not really. Schooling is largely targeted towards the great masses in the middle of the Bell curve. These kids will need help, prodding, and other forms of encouragement in order to keep their basic schoolwork up.

There are a smaller number of kids on the left and right tails that will, for the former, never make any effort; and for the latter, will require nothing other than support. That's just the way things are, I didn't make it that way, and there is nearly nothing that can be done to change it, and recognizing that fact will do more for most children than trying to pretend it doesn't exist.

The mass of kids who need the aid of their parents are helped when the parents can follow along. I have to use a system similar to the broken Swedish one for my kids. It's a mishmash of various systems, and sometimes teachers just give up and use something else, or use a less appropriate method (like a shared Google doc or similar). Keeping up with simple things like "when is the next math test" is a real chore.

While it would be great to be able to instill "initiative" into the souls of kids, it's unlikely to work. Unless you happen to know of a magick elixir that can do so, in which case there are a crapload of adults who could use a dose of this wizardry.

It helps to not romanticize children. Kids are dumb. Even the smart ones. They have little life experience, and their brains are still wired in such a way that they struggle to see consequences. Most of schooling is just a grind to slowly teach them enough basics that they can operate relatively efficiently. Left to their own devices, they will play games, eat candy, and believe that they will make a living as a Twitch streamer or something equally ridiculous.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#122
post #39

> In some cases, people’s personal information could be accessed from Google searches. SEO providers should take a note here. > It warned parents to stop using the app and alleged that it might be illegally accessing people’s personal information If your API allows data extraction, it probably isn't a fault of any client. Perhaps they meant that creators could steal credentials. A problem with any software. I think t…

> I think this digital child managing system sounds moderately dystopian to be honest. I think you misunderstand the point of the system. It's much more mundane than that. The system just replaces paper notices going home with kids and getting lost in their book bags, looking phone numbers to report you child out sick, etc. It's not brave new world, it's simply replacing paper and phone tasks with an app.

Yes! I recall all of these kinds of things being available and used when I was a child well before cell phones existed. Photocopied calendars. Sheets of paper a reticent child would carry around to their teachers for weekly reports. Report cards. Teachers calling parents when more attention was needed.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#123
post #73
post #22

The first thing that jumps out is Sweden has a national identity system, BankID. The APIs appear to be protected using those credentials. With that in mind I have two questions: 1. Who owns the data? 2. Should public funds be used for the creation of private APIs that manage the data? The answer to (1) has consequences for (2). I think many HN readers, including myself, and certainly these parents would argue that th…

(I am Christian Landgren, cofounder of the project) You are right, the city believes they have ownership of the data, mainly because they fail to understand that they aren’t showing data in an app, but rather publishing data in an API. In Swedish law, once you have released data from a government, the receiver have the right to do whatever they want with the that data (as long as it isn’t violating any other laws). T…

Is there any way to write an app that doesn’t “publish the data” by this definition? It seems like publishing was not their intent, and furthermore they were not legally allowed to “publish” personal data.

For example if their system includes an app that lets you see your students grades and disciplinary issues, presumably you would not want that published. Is it simply impossible to build an app with such data in Sweden now as it would be “published”?

Edited to add: and just to be clear, I am fully supportive of this use case. Just trying to understand the restrictions better.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#124
post #74

> The platform is a complex system that’s made up of three different parts, containing 18 individual modules that are maintained by five external companies. The sprawling system is used by 600 preschools and 177 schools, with separate logins for every teacher, student, and parent. The only problem? It doesn’t work. > The Skolplattform, which has cost more than 1 billion Swedish Krona, SEK, ($117 million), has failed…

What is particularly insulting is the needless API/URL changes made in the official app in order to sabotage the efforts of the parents. The Google Play listing should have had a "Mismanagement Count" prominently displayed that incremented every time this happened. The log, and the time spent, should be in court. The parents decided to build this front end for free. They did not decide to play hide and seek with the…

Yeah, it's like they go out of their way to break compatibility with anyone trying to integrate with their services out of spite. What a pain.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-diversity-cr ... > Putnam’s study, which used a large, nationally representative sample of nearly 30,000 Americans, found that people living in more diverse areas reported lower levels of trust in their neighbors. They also reported less interest in voting, volunteering, and giving to charity. In other words, greater diversity seemed to be linked to both feelings and be…

> Past research has shown that Blacks and Hispanics, on average, report less trusting attitudes than do Whites. Without controlling for this, neighborhoods with more Blacks and Hispanics will appear to have lower “trust,” but for reasons having nothing to do with the degree of diversity. The linked article has a lot of stuff about how the Putnam study misinterprets its data.

Sure, you can say the data is misinterpreted, but real world results also show the same conclusion and there is no evidence that shows multi racial areas that have programs that work as well as those in homogeneous societies. I linked it saying it refuted the data: yet it has nothing to prove the contrary. They interpreted it in a politically correct statement to blame white people and call them racist: but they don’t prove any opposite conclusions. They just hand wave it away by blaming white people. They have no respectable information. You asked about why they aren’t implemented in small towns that are homogeneous, what do you think happens in suburbs?

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Past research has shown that Blacks and Hispanics, on average, report less trusting attitudes than do Whites. Without controlling for this, neighborhoods with more Blacks and Hispanics will appear to have lower “trust,” but for reasons having nothing to do with the degree of diversity. The linked article has a lot of stuff about how the Putnam study misinterprets its data.

Sure, you can say the data is misinterpreted, but real world results also show the same conclusion and there is no evidence that shows multi racial areas that have programs that work as well as those in homogeneous societies. I linked it saying it refuted the data: yet it has nothing to prove the contrary. They interpreted it in a politically correct statement to blame white people and call them racist: but they don’…

>what do you think happens in suburbs?

... HOAs enforce strict driveway maintenance codes? I don't think there are any suburbs with a national healthcare system or a social safety net.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you have kids, I am guessing not, if I am wrong, my apologies. Knowing what your kids have due for school is not micromanaging its a core part of being a good parent. I know if my kid has a math test so it lets me sit down with him and review for his test, it allows me to ensure he knows the basis for whatever comes next in his curriculum. Terribly overbearing parents are not good but I think people a…

My oldest kid is 5, but I hope when he is older I can leave him to handle his own schoolwork (offering help if he wants it). > study for their weekly spelling tests for 10 minutes a day Aside: Spending 1.5+ hours per week between home and school studying spelling per se in the way students typically study spelling is an outrageous waste of time. Arguably studying spelling per se is a waste of time in any quantity (as…

sure, studying spelling is probably a waste of time with today's technology but that doesn't change the fact that he has a spelling test every Friday and he is going to feel better about himself if he passes vs fails. Its not a bad thing to set your kids up to succeed within the given system. Its fine to be a rebel but you must also understand that going to school involves testing and as a parent you don't always get to choose the subjects. I very much think that the self esteem my kid gains from getting good grades and actually learning to study is well worth the horror of having to spend a few minutes a day with his dad hanging out, practicing spelling, learning math and chatting about their day.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#128
Every edutech platform I've ever had to use (UK, with 3 kids going through school) is an abomination, the whole sector needs disrupting. My current nemesis is Iris Parentmail [0], a convoluted jumble of javascript that presents the user with a challenge - try to read the apparently important message the school has sent you before Parentmail crashes your browser. If the message is particularly long, then there's an end of level boss where you have to try to read the whole thing before the laptop gives you third degree burns. HNers, please, disrupt the hell out of this sector because it's nothing but chancers, consultants and chancer consultants.

[0] https://www.iris.co.uk/education/engagement-suite/iris-paren...

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you can say the data is misinterpreted, but real world results also show the same conclusion and there is no evidence that shows multi racial areas that have programs that work as well as those in homogeneous societies. I linked it saying it refuted the data: yet it has nothing to prove the contrary. They interpreted it in a politically correct statement to blame white people and call them racist: but they don’…

> what do you think happens in suburbs? ... HOAs enforce strict driveway maintenance codes? I don't think there are any suburbs with a national healthcare system or a social safety net.

You being snarky are you? Suburbs have much better pilot school programs and why would a suburb have a national healthcare system? Do you have an global warming prevention program for carbon credits in your backyard?

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#130
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think this digital child managing system sounds moderately dystopian to be honest" I disagree, I have 2 kids in elementary school and it is very useful to be able to look up what the kids have scheduled for the day to determine what to dress them in, see what's for lunch and if I need to pack them something if they won't like the available option. Most importantly though its very helpful to look up what homework /…

> its very helpful to look up what homework / tests are due as the kids tend to not manage this so well themselves How do you expect they'll develop these sorts of self-starter skills and mental models, besides experiencing things like the (comparatively low-impact!) consequences of not handing in your 5th grade homework....? Hopefully you're going full parabola and also providing disproportionately strong incentives…

Migrate them to keeping their own calendar, rather then using the old fashioned way of a mixture of scribbling stuff in random places and not giving a shift
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