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Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

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Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#121

Post by 0xy »

caf wrote: post #74
ImTheMaddest wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't blame the LNP for all of this. All of the surveillance related bills passed in the last 10 years have been bipartisan. I'd also go as far as to say this is what Australians want. Many people believe these laws won't be used against regular citizens and will assist in law enforcement efforts.

We absolutely can blame the LNP, because they are the Goverment, they draft the laws, they introduce them as Government bills in the parliament, they put them on the notice paper, they determine the sitting schedule that allows them to be debated and passed, they have the majority on the House committees that scrutinise them and they direct the Governor-General to provide royal assent. They also are the the Ministers…

How is one party responsible for a bipartisan bill? The opposition vehemently support surveillance laws and have voted for them repeatedly.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#122

Post by naruhodo »

ImTheMaddest wrote: post #33
stephen_g wrote: post #14

It’s a fairly complex situation. Most people just don’t realise all the encroaching police state laws even exist (I refer to the real ones Federally, not the temporary State-Government health orders that some people have tried to blow out of proportion). We have very little media diversity. The few billionaires who own the few outlets enjoy the continuing tax cuts, random free grants, advertising spend, etc. from the…

We can't blame the LNP for all of this. All of the surveillance related bills passed in the last 10 years have been bipartisan. I'd also go as far as to say this is what Australians want. Many people believe these laws won't be used against regular citizens and will assist in law enforcement efforts.

They are bipartisan, but that does not necessarily imply that Labor would have enacted the same laws if they were the government.

They are waving through these laws so that they cannot be portrayed as "weak on security/law-and-order" by a predominantly hostile (read: News Corp) press.

It is extremely disappointing to see Labor raise all sorts of concerns about similar legislation and then wave it through anyway when the Libs refuse to make any amendments.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#123

Post by prawn »

chroem- wrote: post #106
ceejayoz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandma's in Tasmania. Hasn't needed to wear a mask the entire time. My uncle has worn a mask for a couple of days total. My American-born kids are going to school in KN95 masks and spent most of last year doing temperature checks and health screenings. One of these looks like "a work of mid 20th century dystopian fiction", certainly.

> My grandma's in Tasmania. Hasn't needed to wear a mask the entire time. My uncle has worn a mask for a couple of days total. Now have them attempt that on the mainland. They'll be liable to have their bones broken by the police response.

I'm in SA. Handful of lockdowns days throughout the entirety of COVID so far. I wear a mask for a few seconds to order at the pub, and on flights, and that's about it. Still go to restaurants, not having to homeschool, I've travelled quite a lot in SA, WA and NT over the last 18 months. Don't know anyone personally who has had COVID. Barely seen any police anywhere in 18 months. Work (in tourism content) has been busier than ever. I can see why people outside of the East coast in Australia might be OK with borders/quarantine as they are to date.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#124

Post by 0xy »

waddlesworth wrote: post #59
stephen_g wrote: post #14

It’s a fairly complex situation. Most people just don’t realise all the encroaching police state laws even exist (I refer to the real ones Federally, not the temporary State-Government health orders that some people have tried to blow out of proportion). We have very little media diversity. The few billionaires who own the few outlets enjoy the continuing tax cuts, random free grants, advertising spend, etc. from the…

I absolutely agree with you, although I'm a little more optimistic. 2PP has Labor winning the next election. Some key figures in the Liberal party (Frydenberg, Hunt) have some tough campaigns ahead of them after the massive bias against their home state that's been on display. Then there's the whole friendlyjordies thing, which I've heard commentary about in circles where I would have never expected it. I don't know…

Why would Labor winning change anything? Labor have voted for every single piece of surveillance legislation tendered over the last decade. The AA Bill, metadata retention and more. They voted for it all. They are vehement supporters of surveillance state policies and have voted for it -- repeatedly.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#125

Post by na85 »

javagram wrote: post #68
na85 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's heinous.

Seems less heinous than spreading a dangerous virus and killing hundreds or thousands of citizens? We’ve seen other countries try that approach (e.g. here in the USA) and it clearly harms society and has led to massive suffering and loss of life. Considering this is being trialed as an alternative to being locked under guard in a hotel or cabin for two weeks, it’s actually less invasive too…

>Seems less heinous than spreading a dangerous virus and killing hundreds or thousands of citizens?

Since when is the choice between "in-home photo surveillance" and "intentionally spreading COVID"?

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#126

Post by nickcox »

pedalpete wrote: post #62
spikepuppet wrote: post #4

As an Australian, I can definitely say I'm not complacent. The rise of all this surveillance here certainly unnerves me, and has definitely helped hasten my want to emmigrate ASAP.

This is unfortunate. I immigrated to Australia 10 years ago, and when I arrived, I was shocked by the level of acceptance of surveillance and even the police rights to search. I'm not an Australian citizen, but I make sure the Australians I know are aware that it isn't like this everywhere around the world. If you don't like it, it's better to try to change it or bring awareness than just leave.

> I was shocked by the level of acceptance of surveillance and even the police rights to search

It's not even just the police - the goons on the doors of JB Hi-Fi will demand to root through your bags on your way out of the shop. Nobody even seems to question it.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#127

Post by prawn »

grecy wrote: post #28
bobbytit wrote: post #2

No, we are not complacent. If we leave our home detention to protest anything we are arrested. Where the fuck can I claim asylum?

Ironically, Australians are currently not even permitted to leave the country!

I know of a family who moved to the US within the last 12 months. Has that been a more recent change that would've prevented them leaving at all?

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#128

Post by 0xy »

Tomis02 wrote: post #69

Australian soldiers committing war crimes in Afghanistan? Nobody bats an eyelid. Can't go to Kmart because the government tries to fight the pandemic? Riots in the streets. And you're surprised there's complacency to digital surveillance, when people are more outraged by slight personal discomfort than by murder. It's not even criticism, just an observation. People are very comfortable in their bubble and do not care…

Boiling the current lockdown regime to "can't shop in stores" is needlessly dismissive and reductionist.

The current policy in Australia is that foreign citizens are forbidden from leaving the country. This violates numerous international agreements on the freedom of movement for citizens, including ones Australia is signatory to. The only other countries preventing exit of foreign citizens are names like North Korea, China and others.

I think it's fair to say that a country should be able to control inbound immigration to some extent. But preventing outbound immigration to foreign citizens is despicable.

I know dozens of foreign citizens who have been stuck in Australia because they cannot leave without a permit, that isn't guaranteed even for compelling reasons. Numerous valid permits are being denied.

That's one element. Then there's blatant police state policies and abuses such as a curfew with absolutely zero health evidence backing, police throwing unarmed people to the ground unprovoked into a pool of their blood and refusing medical attention for them [1], pepper spraying elderly people for peacefully protesting and more.

[1] https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/video-emerges-of-c...

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#129

Post by grecy »

LurkingPenguin wrote: post #84
grecy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a forgone conclusion that no country in the world will let you in without proof of COVID vaccination. This has been the status quo for dozens and dozens of countries around the world with regards to for example Yellow Fever Vaccination, so it's nothing new at all. Many people just didn't know about it because they never tried to go to those countries before (West Africa is my personal experience)

> It's a forgone conclusion that no country in the world will let you in without proof of COVID vaccination. There are countries that require all arrivals to quarantine regardless of vaccination status. I live in one of them (Taiwan). The issue with COVID vaccination is that it's still possible to become infected and transmit the virus to others even if you're vaccinated, so requiring vaccination for arrivals is a go…

Oh sure, some countries may also require quarantine before you can enter, and obviously that will vary by country.

I'm just saying they will all require proof of vaccination for covid to be allowed in.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#130

Post by incompatible »

hresvelgr wrote: post #21

To anyone not from Australia or not across this, currently federal law enforcement can hack online accounts, remove, add, or modify data. They still need a warrant but can hack accounts in advance of a warrant, provided they have "reasonable suspicion" that the person they are hacking is committing a crime. There is also no recourse if the warrant is denied and they have already hacked the accounts of the person in s…

I think a previous law allows them to demand that hardware or software developers (people or companies) modify their products to aid in intercepting communications. Theoretically, this could even be by request of foreign countries with targets in foreign countries.
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