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iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

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Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#121

Post by bigiain »

packetslave wrote: post #22
dkonofalski wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will admit that I got a little tinge of resentment when I realized it was an ad/announcement for their app but that quickly subsided when I realized that I would much rather have educational/informative ads like this than the alternative. Even if I don't download their app, I got something useful from this and that's ok with me.

yeah, content marketing doesn't annoy me nearly as much when it's this good (and this isn't technically CM since they're open about the fact that they're announcing their new app version)

And when it's good, it's good.

I just clicked buy on Halide. I'd downloaded and played with it back when I got my iPhoneXR, and I only upgraded from that recently purely because I wanted some of the camera advances.

$80 to buy specialised software for my $1800 camera (that also happens to be a phone) feels totally like the right thing to do.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#122

Post by defaultname »

foldr wrote: post #109
defaultname wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CoC for the iPhone is smaller than the ASP-C given the smaller sensor. By choosing the same resolution of an ASP-C sensor, we are calculating for a given level of "good enough for that resolution". It is perfectly comparable level of focus. I have no idea why you are so caught up in distractions. I calculated the hyperfocal length for an iPhone and an equivalent zoom SLR, at the same aperture. These yield effecti…

If you double the focal length you also have to double the sensor dimensions (to get the same angle of view) and hence double the size of the CoC - so you end up with f^2/f = f. That is, you double the numerator in the DoF formula because the CoC has doubled, and quadruple the denominator because the focal length has doubled, with the end result that the DoF halves. Your mistake is one that’s easy to make and one tha…

"Your mistake"

There is no mistake. Your first paragraph is unfortunately founded on some misunderstandings of optics, however I calculated the hyperfocal length for an equivalent ASP-C 35mm system and an iPhone at the same crop (which anyone with an SLR and an iPhone can replicate in moments). The iPhone has a dramatically higher DoF. There are no mistakes in that calculation. This is the reason why you need computational bokeh. It's why it's so easy for everything to always be in focus. Could someone contrive ridiculous focal length / f-ratio / CoC parameters? Of course they can -- it's just a function with parameters that you punch in, and they can offset. In actual reality, however, short focal length is the primary input into why small cameras feature larger depths of field. Why we talk about the equivalent aperture in the way that we talk about equivalent focal length.

sudosysgen's argument in the end seems to distill down to "yes, but compare it via the equivalent DoF f-stop on the larger camera" which is a short circuit of the entire argument. It is basically saying that AMC is worth the same as Apple if AMC shares were each worth $4636.

Okay.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#123

Post by chillage »

packetslave wrote: post #50
marcellus23 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also always worth bringing up in these discussions: the best camera is the one you have with you. A DSLR is obviously a better camera, but you usually don't have one on you 24/7.

The best camera you have with you with the lens you have on it at the time . If I have to pick which of my heavy glass to carry around with me on a regular basis, the 90mm macro is going to stay on the shelf most days unless I'm specifically going out to shoot macro photos. My iPhone Pro 13 is always going to be in my pocket.

Even further, it's the best camera with the lens AND tripod you have with you

Went for a night walk yesterday and saw a cool snail. The new iPhone 13 pro took a decent shot of the snail in the dark with automated long exposure and built in stacking. But I thought you know for a really excellent shot of the snail, if only I had with me my mirrorless camera.. AND macro lens.. AND tripod so I can get properly long low light exposure. Not to mention another 5-10 minutes out of my day to process the photo. Missing any one of these ingredients the iPhone wins.

But you know if I had to lug around all that camera gear I probably wouldn't have gone for the walk and seen the snail in the first place.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#124

Post by defaultname »

sudosysgen wrote: post #95
defaultname wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you know a way to focus-stack a live and highly active subject, I'm all ears." You don't, which is why higher depth of field is the golden standard. See: The entirety of this discussion. "so confidently to take such a superior tone" To be clear, you dismissed my post by claiming that it's a "fixed" issue, then posting proof that doesn't show it to fixed. I don't believe I'm the one who attempted a superior tone.…

Small focal length cameras only have an advantage when the sensor size is the same. If you are decreasing the sensor size and keeping the resolution constant, the "small focal length" camera has zero advantage. There is no difference between a 4mm lens at f/2 that is a, say, 30mm FF equivalent and a 30mm full-frame lens at f/15. Precisely zero difference.

If my grandma had wheels she'd be a bicycle.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#126

Post by t0mbstone »

bigiain wrote: post #121
packetslave wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, content marketing doesn't annoy me nearly as much when it's this good (and this isn't technically CM since they're open about the fact that they're announcing their new app version)

And when it's good, it's good. I just clicked buy on Halide. I'd downloaded and played with it back when I got my iPhoneXR, and I only upgraded from that recently purely because I wanted some of the camera advances. $80 to buy specialised software for my $1800 camera (that also happens to be a phone) feels totally like the right thing to do.

Yeah I just tried it out and holy shit it's light years better than the default camera app when it come to letting you adjust manual focus and what not. I signed up for the trial. The yearly fee is only $11.99. How did you spend $80?

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#127

Post by dylan604 »

jychang wrote: post #116
dylan604 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's how physics work. If iPhone Macro doesn't suffer the same issues, then it's a software trick

It's not a software trick. Just one of the unintended benefits of having a smaller sensor. Full frame sensors have thin depth of field. Small sensors like an iPhone don't have that, so they fake it with portrait mode. But when you do macro photography, having thin DoF becomes a drawback, so with big DSLRs you have to do focus stacking (which is unnecessary on an iphone).

>Full frame sensors have thin depth of field.

...when they have a large aperture. Stoping down the lens will widen the DoF on that full frame sensor

>so with big DSLRs you have to do focus stacking

you don't have to. only if that is the style you are wanting to achieve. you can also stop down the aperture. it's not as obvious as non-macro, but still something doable.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#128

Post by KANahas »

t0mbstone wrote: post #126
bigiain wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when it's good, it's good. I just clicked buy on Halide. I'd downloaded and played with it back when I got my iPhoneXR, and I only upgraded from that recently purely because I wanted some of the camera advances. $80 to buy specialised software for my $1800 camera (that also happens to be a phone) feels totally like the right thing to do.

Yeah I just tried it out and holy shit it's light years better than the default camera app when it come to letting you adjust manual focus and what not. I signed up for the trial. The yearly fee is only $11.99. How did you spend $80?

According to the Halide II App Store landing page[1], a one time purchase is $50. Whether or not it's easily accessible in the app is another story.

> In-App Purchases

1. Yearly $11.99

2. Monthly $2.99

3. One Time Purchase $49.99

[1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/halide-mark-ii-pro-camera/id88...

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#129

Post by sudosysgen »

defaultname wrote: post #122
foldr wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you double the focal length you also have to double the sensor dimensions (to get the same angle of view) and hence double the size of the CoC - so you end up with f^2/f = f. That is, you double the numerator in the DoF formula because the CoC has doubled, and quadruple the denominator because the focal length has doubled, with the end result that the DoF halves. Your mistake is one that’s easy to make and one tha…

"Your mistake" There is no mistake. Your first paragraph is unfortunately founded on some misunderstandings of optics, however I calculated the hyperfocal length for an equivalent ASP-C 35mm system and an iPhone at the same crop (which anyone with an SLR and an iPhone can replicate in moments). The iPhone has a dramatically higher DoF. There are no mistakes in that calculation. This is the reason why you need computa…

That's not how it works. If I take a picture with 2x crop sensor at 100mm f/2 it is going to be exactly the same picture as at 50mm f/4 on a FF camera. Its just how it works. They have proven it using the DOF equation by showing that scaling the CoC factor down with the focal length and scaling the focal length down means you have the same DoF as long as the actual aperture diameter is the same, algebraically. I gave you an explanation of why it is the same because the solid angle is preserved. In the end you're making the typical photographer mistake of misunderstanding crop factor.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#130

Post by sudosysgen »

defaultname wrote: post #124
sudosysgen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small focal length cameras only have an advantage when the sensor size is the same. If you are decreasing the sensor size and keeping the resolution constant, the "small focal length" camera has zero advantage. There is no difference between a 4mm lens at f/2 that is a, say, 30mm FF equivalent and a 30mm full-frame lens at f/15. Precisely zero difference.

If my grandma had wheels she'd be a bicycle.

The two cameras produce exactly the same image. I guess your grandma really is a bicycle.

It's exactly the same reason why 50mm f/2 lens produces the same image on a full frame camera as a 75mm f/2.8 lens on an APS-C 1.5x camera. It's just that instead of multiplying by 1.5 you're multiplying by 8.4.

Indeed an iPhone 13's ultrawide will provide exactly the same image and bokeh as a 13mm f/15.1 lens on FF

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