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Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

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Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#121

Post by metalliqaz »

denton-scratch wrote: post #116

600 watts? That's one bar of a two-bar electric fire; in my youth, that two-bar fire was the only thing keeping some families warm. I mean, that power all gets turned into heat anyway in the end; so sure, if you need more heating, forget the two-bar fire, and buy a graphics controller instead - playing games with the two-bar fire isn't a good plan. I don't get why they can't make efficient GPUs. I mean, I do get that…

I agree it is a little out of control.

Some may marvel at the incredible power available to consumers now, but I've been watching with disappointment at how each new generation is only very slightly better in the performance per watt metric. Most of the new compute power is coming from increased energy draw. In an energy-conscious environment it's quite hard to justify.

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#122

Post by Someone1234 »

ReactiveJelly wrote: post #95
Faaak wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny because here in europe, power plugs with 16A (some are 20A) are actually the norm: at 230V they can deliver 3600W/4600W !

I wonder how hard it is to do a bottom-up conversion of the USA to 230. If the "all-electric" branch of the environmental movement are right, we'll eventually need to adopt the superior European kettle technology. Getting everyone on the same plug would be great.

Every single home in the US has 220 already. They're taken from 220 to 110 at the breaker for common outlets, but many large appliances (and EV chargers) already are 220.

Worse kettle performance is unfortunate. But better safety is a nice side effect (in particular as the NEMA connector the US uses is dangerous/poorly designed/bad, even with the ground pin).

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#123

Post by timw4mail »

stefan_ wrote: post #109
timw4mail wrote: post #76

This looks like some abomination of the ancient molex drive connection with part of an ATX main connection. At which point does the GPU get its own dedicated power supply?

Why would it ever? It's much more efficient to scale up the one AC mains voltage -> 12V DC supply you already have. You think in datacenters they are just stacking up PSUs? No, all of this stuff gets vastly more efficient and reliable if you can build just one big PSU to supply say 48V DC and distribute that everywhere.

My understanding is that most normal servers have their own PSUs, and often a hot spare. But that's not really relevant.

The question was more rhetorical than serious.

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#124

Post by denton-scratch »

turtlebits wrote: post #35
jl6 wrote: post #27

I’ve always thought of gaming as a virtuous low-impact form of entertainment, insofar as it displaces real-world pursuits like foreign ski holidays, gasoline-powered road trips, or land-hogging golf courses. But burning nearly a kilowatt on a gaming rig feels like a step too far. Sure, the power could be sourced from wind or solar plants, but there’s still a level of excessive conspicuous consumption going on here th…

Lots of things are a huge waste of electricity. Ever use your oven? At 12% efficiency you're wasting over 1kw of electricity. Unless energy prices rise, it's literally pennies.

How can an electric oven be just 12% efficient?

I suppose:

1. You often have to pre-heat the oven, so during that time, you are not cooking food

2. The oven is rarely full, so instead of heating food, you are heating the oven

3. The oven remains hot after the food is removed, but you could argue that's low-grade heat, unsuitable for cooking

If my electric oven is just 12% efficient, I'd like to know why (and how I can get one that is more efficient). I understand that microwave ovens are much more efficient (I guess because the heat is generated inside the food). But they're no good for browning food, or baking bread.

I'm still lost on this notion that an electric oven is just 12% efficient. If that's true, then I could patent a device that harvests energy from electric ovens, and make a mint.

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#125

Post by myself248 »

That looks all the world like a Micro-Fit 3.0 drawing, whose contacts are normally rated at 8.5A, but here they're claiming 9.2A each. Also, the largest Micro-Fit terminal is made for 18AWG, but the article mentions 16.

https://www.molex.com/molex/products/family/microfit_30?pare...

I suspect what's happening is Molex is making a new version of the terminal with higher clamping force or better plating, to keep the temperature rise down at higher current, and larger wire grips, to accommodate the thicker conductor. (This will also allow more heat flow away from the contact.)

However, the contact pitch is unchanged from 3.0mm, meaning the cavities in the housing can't grow any more, so the wire insulation thickness will be limited. That's not a big deal electrically since it's only 12 volts, but it's a consideration mechanically since the wires will be less protected against abrasion, pinching, and other damage.

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#126

Post by denton-scratch »

httpz wrote: post #10

Assuming you can install two GPUs using 600W, that's basically running a hair dryer in your desktop since most of the energy is converted to heat.

All of the energy is converted to heat. Some energy from your rig is emitted as light; but that's your monitor, and your monitor has its own power supply (which means that 600W is an underestimate).

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#127

Post by denton-scratch »

saberdancer wrote: post #41
ksec wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This got me thinking. ( I must be missing something or having wrong assumption in my high overview of the issue. ) Do Crypto People use their GPU generated heat as heater assuming they lives in a place that requires heating anyway? Doesn't that equate to free money assuming they could actually mine crypto?

Yes. That's one of the benefits. Some people use electric heating even without crypto so using GPUs to mine crypto to get the same effect is a no brainer. Problem is that during the summer you have to get rid of the excess heat, so you need air conditioning or perhaps open air cooling. Not gonna lie, I've used my GPU to heat up my small room before.

> so you need air conditioning or perhaps open air cooling.

Or icebergs - Reyjavik is a popular place to build data-centres, so I have heard. They also have good geothermal in those parts.

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#128

Post by nicoburns »

denton-scratch wrote: post #119
bestouff wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you compare that with an inefficient electric heater. Otherwise, your gaming gear will consume way more electricity for the same heating power than, say, a heat pump.

What's an "inefficient electric heater"? Is that a device that generates more light than heat? Surely all the energy you put into any machine is eventually going to turn into heat? Hmm - perhaps there are heaters that generate heat mechanically, and the resulting losses are sonic.

There are electric heat pumps which move heat from the ground into your space which use drastically less energy than electric heaters that convert electricity into heat directly.

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#129

Post by fredoralive »

scrooched_moose wrote: post #94
timw4mail wrote: post #76

This looks like some abomination of the ancient molex drive connection with part of an ATX main connection. At which point does the GPU get its own dedicated power supply?

Will Smith (of Tested/Maximum PC) mentioned in one of his recent podcast episodes [1] that GPU vendors tried to add dedicated power supplies to cards, with their own AC connection, a while back (mid 2000s or so if I remember right). Consumer/industry pushback killed it before they hit shelves and the vendors focused on efficiency instead. I don't see the same pushback happening these days. 1) https://techpod.content.…

I think the mad 4 processor 3DFX Voodoo 5 6000 that was never released used an external power supply, at least on some PCB revisions.

I'm not sure if any released graphics card has used their own power supplies. I think they all used some sort of internal connection to the standard power supply if the slot can't power it alone.

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#130

Post by cogman10 »

timw4mail wrote: post #76

This looks like some abomination of the ancient molex drive connection with part of an ATX main connection. At which point does the GPU get its own dedicated power supply?

The real question is at what point do gamers start choosing lower power parts because the GPU is too power hungry? Do we get into a world where professional gamers start having 240V lines installed for their PCs?

A US power outlet is typically rated at 120VAC@15A, that's a 1800W budget if the only thing on the circuit is a PC.

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