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Samsung Foundry Forum announcements

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Re: Samsung Foundry Forum announcements

#121

Post by benatkin »

short12 wrote: post #118
benatkin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google uploads to their servers. They aren't anointed. You can turn off sync. Same as Google. Samsung software isn't worse than Apple or Google IMO.

It is far worse than the Google and apple experience. They routinely make inferior versions of an app that would be redicously easy to clone. They need to realize they are a hardware company, not a software company And that goes for all of their product lines across the board. It's all garbage software. Its a shame they intentionally cripple excellent hardware with crap Until they stop that practice they are not even…

Nope, I use Camera, Notes, and Gallery every day and prefer them to the Google ones. Those aren't simple apps.

Re: Samsung Foundry Forum announcements

#122

Post by ksec »

1-6 wrote: post #113
ksec wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to add some context for those who dont follow Semi closely. Samsung Foundry have a history of over promise and under deliver. This 3nm launch will likely be similar to their EUV node which they claim to be industry first but wasn't shipping in any real volume. So arguably they are not lying, but it is a marketing spin. TSMC is an extremely pragmatic company. It either work or it doesn't, there is no need to sa…

> TSMC is an extremely pragmatic company. After listening into their earnings call, their CEO really pushes aside quick profits (such as raising prices) and prefers long-term stability and keeping their existing clients happy. The investors wanted TSMC to raise chip prices and expand their operations.

> After listening into their earnings call,

People should really listen to earning calls, it shows the company's true character. From Nvidia, Intel, AMD or Apple. I have yet to see any media does a decent job and translating it to mainstream news. Mostly because Tech news (site) aren't really focused on Finance and only cares about the tech, while Finance / Investors doesn't care or known enough about about Tech and wouldn't cover it in the Finance news.

> and prefers long-term stability and keeping their existing clients happy.

That is why people partner with TSMC. As Morris Chang calls it the Grand Alliance. Unlike Samsung and Intel, TSMC is Pure Play, which means they dont have chips that compete with their clients. They are also transparent about their progress. TSMC originally put GAA on 3nm, but it was clear the tech isn't going to be mature enough in time. So they changed it to something else. Let their customer knows, let them decide if they should move on to a more mainstream node like a cost reduced 4nm, or stick to leading edge on 3nm FinFET.

Unlike Intel which lied to all of their Custom Foundry partners leaving some of them with a two years 5G delayed rollout. Or Samsung which despite having the cheapest per wafer, the cost advantage doesn't translate well when you dont have enough of them for your inventory needs.

Re: Samsung Foundry Forum announcements

#123

Post by zibzab »

ksec wrote: post #119
zibzab wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: What is the point of having the best tech in 2021 if all capacity is allocated to a single customer?

Because that single customer paid in advance and book those capacity? That is how it works in literally all other industry supply chain.

In practice, how is that different from not having the capacity to serve others?

Re: Samsung Foundry Forum announcements

#124

Post by ksec »

zibzab wrote: post #123
ksec wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that single customer paid in advance and book those capacity? That is how it works in literally all other industry supply chain.

In practice, how is that different from not having the capacity to serve others?

That is not how capacity planning works. You dont built it and hope for them to come.

If others were willing to paid, take the risk and book in advance they will have the capacity the need. But rarely anyone was will to pay the price premium. They wait for it to become a little more mainstream.

Re: Samsung Foundry Forum announcements

#125

Post by thetinguy »

MikusR wrote: post #96
thetinguy wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s an lg oled soon to be released that “solves” the problem by basically underscanning and using the unlit pixels at the edges to allow for much more significant pixel shifts. It’s this one, but I can’t find the review. https://www.dpreview.com/news/0394947539/lg-new-32-4k-ultraf...

Oled tvs have had Screen Shift for years.

Yes but oled TVs don’t have the same spare pixels as the monitor.

Re: Samsung Foundry Forum announcements

#126

Post by dragonelite »

bazooka_penguin wrote: post #48
nabaraz wrote: post #6

I can never remember what xnm means as it varies between companies. In this case, Samsung's 3nm = Intel's 7nm I am still waiting for a standard based on transistor density numbers!

It should be ahead of Intel 4 ("4nm"). Samsung 5nm density is approximately 127M gates/mmsq on paper. Samsung 4nm will scale to around 0.75x area according to their China conference earlier this year, to a transistor density of around 168M gates/mmsq. They had another conference the other day detailing 3nm, which will scale down another 25%, to around 224M gates/mmsq. Intel 4 was estimated to be up to 200M gates/mmsq…

gates/mmsq seems a way more usuable metric then the nm marketing stuff?

Re: Samsung Foundry Forum announcements

#127

Post by dota_fanatic »

ndiddy wrote: post #69
dota_fanatic wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using an LG OLED for 5 years with an HTPC. Lots of gameplay and leaving it on all day with eg a web browser open. I haven't experienced any burn in.

Would you mind taking a photo of your TV showing a 50% gray screen?

https://imgur.com/a/mMuy5fj

Poor lighting in this room, taken w/ an iPhone 12 Mini. Just grabbed the first result of "50% gray screen" from youtube.

I can see some vertical stripes if I look closely, but that seems to be general aging and not burn in. At least I can't think of any images that could have burned in that pattern with what I've used the screen for. Tbh this picture makes it look worse than it appears but you'll just have to take my word on that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ This TV has gotten a lot of (ab)use, much more than a typical home I would think.

I'm glad you suggested this test because now I have some fuel for upgrading in 2022. ;) I wouldn't say the aging I can see from this test is noticeable in most cases, but it's a tool I'll use in the future to see how the striping worsens.

Re: Samsung Foundry Forum announcements

#128

Post by N00bN00b »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #39
N00bN00b wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but it was in the past two decades and got particularly ridiculous beginning around "28nm" up to now. I wonder if that is some kind of cultural shift that is taking place that started around 2009, or if it's always been like this and I just never noticed. BMW model numbers used to more or less accurately reflect engine sizes, not anymore, it's just numbers now. 2G, 3G, 4G used to mean something, not anymore. I could…

Waaaaay back in the day, the Electro Motive Division (EMD) of General Motors make railroad locomotive. They had the GP-20 with 2000 horsepower, and the SD-24 with 2400 HP. Then General Electric entered the business with the U-25, having 2500 HP. EMD's next model was the GP-30, with (ahem) 2250 HP. This was in 1961. So, yeah. This is nothing new. Marketers gonna market.

Kind of makes sense. People probably didn't all of a sudden become more dishonest. Thanks.

Re: Samsung Foundry Forum announcements

#129

Post by dota_fanatic »

tbonebrad wrote: post #109
dota_fanatic wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using an LG OLED for 5 years with an HTPC. Lots of gameplay and leaving it on all day with eg a web browser open. I haven't experienced any burn in.

My 3 year old 65” LG OLED is having the red pixels burn out already and it looks horrible. My 85” Samsung looks just as good to me (even better some times because it gets brighter).

That really sucks, especially given how expensive these things are. Mine is a 55" fwiw. :/

I went ahead and ran a pixel test and they're all working fine still. Maybe LG has been cutting costs as their OLED lines have matured? Or it could be bad luck of the draw.

Re: Samsung Foundry Forum announcements

#130

Post by bazooka_penguin »

dragonelite wrote: post #126
bazooka_penguin wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be ahead of Intel 4 ("4nm"). Samsung 5nm density is approximately 127M gates/mmsq on paper. Samsung 4nm will scale to around 0.75x area according to their China conference earlier this year, to a transistor density of around 168M gates/mmsq. They had another conference the other day detailing 3nm, which will scale down another 25%, to around 224M gates/mmsq. Intel 4 was estimated to be up to 200M gates/mmsq…

gates/mmsq seems a way more usuable metric then the nm marketing stuff?

It's a better ballpark, but it's still an ideal number measured by the manufacturer using their own tests. Problem is, companies rarely if ever source the exact same design to multiple foundries, so it's not easy to compare in practice.
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