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Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

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Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#121

Post by netcan »

vorpalhex wrote: post #75
netcan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is naive, IMO. Even if the app store was run differently, say allowing a competing way of installing apps, Apple still have plenty of fungible power to make such deals. You might have ticked a box to make it technically fair, for some definition of, but that would probably be just cosmetic. IE, app store would still represent most revenue and everyone is in the same position but a few geeks. The "platform game"…

An alternative market would create pressure on Apple. If Netflix tells the App store to go screw themselves and lists on a different store, then the App Store gets that much less traffic and either has to compete or lose out.

I don't think it does, beyond box ticking. You're not likely to get enough competition to get competitive market dynamics on iPhones. Sure, a highly motivated user might go to alternative app stores.

Netflix does not need to go to a different store. They're influential enough to negotiate. Apple would cut them the discount, like now, and they wouldn't. The other store will not have enough users to make the reduced fees worth ditching the app store.

If there was enough competition, most of the app store profits would dissipate. That's what competition does. Users wouldn't pay 20-30%'extra to have apple's stamp, prices would fall and the business model is gone.

No little tickbox rule will make a competitive market in app stores. These markets are structured by nature. That's why platforms are so powerful.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#122

Post by EastOfTruth »

loktarogar wrote: post #80
EastOfTruth wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got to start the discussion somewhere.... For me, I t think that it should be related to the number of employees.

A cap on employees would probably be a negative thing, but a cap on revenue per employee would incentivise hiring people

that's the solution

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#123

Post by tornato7 »

drexlspivey wrote: post #113
jw1224 wrote: post #91

I wonder why Netflix don’t want their content to be searchable in Apple’s TV app: > “Since TV App is not going to happen right now, there’s nothing else to get from Netflix at this time” The TV App is actually pretty great — one of the few parts of the Apple ecosystem where the garden walls are very low. I can search for a TV show or film, and even when the iTunes Store has it available, TV still suggests I watch it…

Netflix doesn’t want their content to show up in apple TV search because they don’t want to give access to their user’s data to Apple. It’s a terrible anti-consumer decision and frankly it was one of the last straws that led me back to piracy after many years. All I wanted was a universal search for content instead of having to go into each provider’s app. I am now using Plex/Sonarr/Radarr and it works flawlessly, a…

I think it's more than that - if users are finding shows through the Apple TV search then Apple is able to promote their own shows and services in that search functionality. Netflix wants people to use their app so they can push their own content and features.

Similar to why Amazon doesn't like it when you Google for products and end up at Amazon, they would rather you just visit amazon.com and search from there so they can show you ads.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#124

Post by netcan »

emsy wrote: post #118
netcan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is naive, IMO. Even if the app store was run differently, say allowing a competing way of installing apps, Apple still have plenty of fungible power to make such deals. You might have ticked a box to make it technically fair, for some definition of, but that would probably be just cosmetic. IE, app store would still represent most revenue and everyone is in the same position but a few geeks. The "platform game"…

You said it's naive but didn't actually present a reasonable alternative.

Sorry. Poor choice of words.

Alternative to what? A law that says apple must allow alternative App Stores? I'm ok with that, and it might be useful to some people. I just don't think it will affect the market much.

The App Store "market" is not going to become a competitive market with a quick fix like that. Any solution that does make it a competitive market also tanks the business model. 30% to deliver an app is many times what a competitive rate would be. The competitive rate might be 0. We didn't have app stores before app stores.

Any kind of antitrust effort would need to start from the understanding that this is not a competitive market. Apple has all the power. A few app devs have the leverage to negotiate and everyone else is a price taker. You could "solve" it by regulating prices, enforcing a single price or otherwise limiting apple's choices directly. Or... you could leave it as is, which is (IMO) about the same as ruling that they must allow side loading or alternative app stores.

Similarly, it will be very hard to limit fb from making their app addictive, shrill or other such problems. Their incentives are very strongly tied to these.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#125

Post by mhh__ »

tornato7 wrote: post #120
jobu wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. As a developer I've often felt outright hostility coming from Apple developer relations, and maybe it's this lack of a partnership mentality. They generally treat end users really well, but it's like they see external developers as some sort of parasite feeding on their products. In my experience it's difficult to get actual technical help unless you personally know someone internal to Apple.

From Apple's perspective, developers are either creating competing products or products that Apple will eventually compete with. Either way they would rather not help.

Don't forget products they just ban

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#126

Post by [deleted] »

netcan wrote: post #121
vorpalhex wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternative market would create pressure on Apple. If Netflix tells the App store to go screw themselves and lists on a different store, then the App Store gets that much less traffic and either has to compete or lose out.

I don't think it does, beyond box ticking. You're not likely to get enough competition to get competitive market dynamics on iPhones. Sure, a highly motivated user might go to alternative app stores. Netflix does not need to go to a different store. They're influential enough to negotiate. Apple would cut them the discount, like now, and they wouldn't. The other store will not have enough users to make the reduced fe…

[deleted]

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#127

Post by drdaeman »

haunter wrote: post #3

>Rep. Johnson: Does Apple treat every app and every developer the same? >Cook: “We treat every developer the same. We have open rules. It’s a rigorous process. Because we care about privacy and quality, we do look at every app before it goes on. We apply these rules equally to everyone.”

To be fair, from the third email it's clear they meant for Netflix to be treated as everyone else (after they figured the rules for the program they mention), eliminating this special treatment.

In my personal belief, Cook would've won more by admitting they may have some exceptions, but actively try to get rid of those. It's arguable of course, but it the email he justifies it by end-user interests and he probably means it. That's just real-world realities - that exceptions happen even with the principled people, just because things are never white-and-black.

Instead, he told a lie how they're holier than the Pope. Even if he believes in that and genuinely wants things to be that way, he surely knew it's not the reality.

And I just wonder why. I don't have any knowledge how things work at those levels, but my very naive risk analysis is that if there's any serious investigation there are significant chances such lie would be uncovered, and legal and PR consequences of that would be harsher than admittance, especially with justifications.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#128

Post by FireBeyond »

drexlspivey wrote: post #113
jw1224 wrote: post #91

I wonder why Netflix don’t want their content to be searchable in Apple’s TV app: > “Since TV App is not going to happen right now, there’s nothing else to get from Netflix at this time” The TV App is actually pretty great — one of the few parts of the Apple ecosystem where the garden walls are very low. I can search for a TV show or film, and even when the iTunes Store has it available, TV still suggests I watch it…

Netflix doesn’t want their content to show up in apple TV search because they don’t want to give access to their user’s data to Apple. It’s a terrible anti-consumer decision and frankly it was one of the last straws that led me back to piracy after many years. All I wanted was a universal search for content instead of having to go into each provider’s app. I am now using Plex/Sonarr/Radarr and it works flawlessly, a…

Apple, refusing to share their user data with others: "Great. Pro privacy. Pro user."

Netflix, refusing to share their user data with Apple: "Terrible. Anti-consumer. Last straw."

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#129

Post by CPLX »

moreira wrote: post #94
CPLX wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could also just put a tax of 100% on any revenue in excess of $10bn a year and nip this entire society-destroying problem in the bud.

That -sounds- simple, but it isn't, and in reality any company would easily bypass that by simply creating other companies to take some of the revenue. They already do that to avoid international taxes. As an example, the US charges tax on all income coming to a US company so companies have entities in countries like Ireland and Luxembourg to keep that money out of the US government's reach. So Apple might have $100B…

There’s nothing simple about it. It would require pages of statute as well as regulatory guidance, and some of the most wealthy and capable forces in our modern world would be arrayed against it trying to avoid and evade the rules.

None of those things make the proposal impossible however.

It would be a dismal society indeed if we unilaterally surrendered to every instance of centralized malevolent power without a fight.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#130

Post by badmadrad »

echelon wrote: post #2

Steve Jobs and Tim Cook are the iPhone Al Capone. There's no technical reason software needs to be distributed this way. It's only greed. I hope this mounting evidence leads to a single verdict from the DOJ: "no more app stores" for common computing devices. (Please don't rehash the video game console argument.)

how about instead of "no more app stores" you and others with your interest go make more app stores. more is better. if you have a good product you will gain the leverage you need.
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