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YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

washingtonpost.com

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Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#121

Post by mmcdermott »

One of the things that gets lost in the arguments around this sort of censorship (and, before I lose you, it is censorship and that is fine; we all engage in forms of censorship in determining what we will or will not ingest - the danger comes when some third party is acting as the censor for others) is the distinction between legality and morality.

Legally, it seems self-evident that YouTube should be permitted to curate their own content however they deem fit, whether it is fair in the abstract or not. I wouldn't want to live in a world where anyone was compelled to publish, disseminate or engage with content against their will.

Morally, this sort of mass banning of a position ought to be a taboo if we want a free society. We, as free citizens, have every right to petition that an open stance be adopted even if YouTube is well within their rights to refuse.

The other thing I tend to think important is to always ask one more question - would I support this action if it was taken if the sides of the issue were reversed? Sometimes the answer is 'yes', but I've found it a warning sign when the mental response is 'but....'

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#122

Post by kkoncevicius »

the_snooze wrote: post #59
rafaelturk wrote: post #34

As much I condemn anti-vaxxers: “I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”

They still have every right to say what they want. YouTube also has the right not to aid them. This is the information version of "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here."

YouTube of course has the right not to aid them. But we also have the right to point out that YouTube is making a mistake by doing this.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#123

Post by inglor_cz »

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

This is my concern as well. How many people refrain from saying anything about Covid at all for fear of triggering some mindless algorithms?

Human review of such blunders is unreliable at best.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#124

Post by atty »

mariodiana wrote: post #73
ookblah wrote: post #50

Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Just a no win situation. It's too easy for bad characters to screw up an entire system with little effort (look at trolls, spammers, etc). Either you moderate everyone and slippery slope down into censorship where the tools…

"Misinformation" should not be combatted by anything other than better, more persuasive information.

This is an outmoded concept based on the idea that humans are purely rational creatures, which we already know is false. Just providing better information does not sway individuals. People are far more swayed by information from their “tribe”, even if that information is patently false, than they are by quantitatively better information, because it makes them feel good. That’s why actions like this seem to be necessary.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#125

Post by mrtksn »

I can't tell if I'm more disgusted by the anti-vaxxers or the censorship.

IMHO no content should be banned, ever. The only thing is to be held responsible for the content if you are not going to be impartial.

For example, instead of banning videos of anti-vaxxers, put a claim progress list clearly visible together with the video that can be maintained by those of opposing views.

For example, according to some anti-vaxxers, people with mRNA vaccines are about to die en mass. In places like Portugal, full vaccination rate approaches %90. Wouldn't be good to keep the video and see if Portuguese are dying?

Content moderation by elimination is one of the biggest sins of the internet era. The internet has become a place where history doesn't exist because you can't have a history without having the artefacts that make it. We should be able to look back a few years back and see who said what.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#126

Post by mc32 »

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

Thank you for presenting the nuance.

It’s easy to condemn the quacks and extremely ill informed, but all sorts of opinions get swept away. Skeptics, those who want to study the details, exceptions, oddities, etc., get swept up by the system thus stifling legitimate debate and learning of a critical topic.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#127

Post by vorpalhex »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #117
mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

The wackos are the ones creating the context in which moderate voices lose their power. If you want moderation, you have to remove the extreme BS and the algorithms that thrive on it, which process buries moderates and makes their views anathema to the polarized extremes. Why allow polarized extremes to form on your private, I must emphasize privately owned, platform? This isn't the public square, freedom of speech d…

The wackos don't actually have the power to take down moderates as parent discusses. Only youtube has that power.

Content moderation is not inherently good or bad, it simply is. A version of Youtube that cracked down on well known science would be legal but not "good".

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#129

Post by mc32 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #107
mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

Okay, but we really need to talk about what “stifling of public debate” means. Companies are routinely pressured to fire people in public positions who espouse pro-Palestinian views. Across the nation, states are enacting legal bans against teaching the history of racism, and firing teachers who dare to make students uncomfortable (by the same people who decried “safe spaces” less than a decade ago). Plenty of people…

People don’t get fired for being pro Palestinian they get fired for being violently anti-Israel. Don’t conflate the two.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#130

Post by SamPatt »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #117
mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

The wackos are the ones creating the context in which moderate voices lose their power. If you want moderation, you have to remove the extreme BS and the algorithms that thrive on it, which process buries moderates and makes their views anathema to the polarized extremes. Why allow polarized extremes to form on your private, I must emphasize privately owned, platform? This isn't the public square, freedom of speech d…

The problem is: who determines who the "wackos" are and what is and isn't "extreme BS"?

If it's defined by social consensus then during periods of groupthink and hysteria (common among humans) even the most reasonable people will be labeled wackos and shunned.

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