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Twitter enables tipping with Bitcoin, plans to let users authenticate NFTs

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Re: Twitter enables tipping with Bitcoin, plans to let users authenticate NFTs

#121

Post by oars »

zapdrive wrote: post #117
bradwood wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasing the blocksize makes running a node much more expensive (due to storage, mainly) which in turn makes the network less decentralised. Bitcoin (rightly) selects for decentralisation over transaction speed, hence LN as an L2...

Bitcoin blockchain size: 350 gb 12tb harddrive: $199. Bitcoin blockchain is increasing at less than 100gb per year. The storage cost of 100gb is about $1.6 I'm sure people running nodes can spend more than 1.6 a year to store a bigger chain.

Thank you for doing the math.

Re: Twitter enables tipping with Bitcoin, plans to let users authenticate NFTs

#122

Post by pontus »

zapdrive wrote: post #118
Geee wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lightning Network is not a side chain. It's basically a way to interactively update transactions between nodes before they're broadcasted and settled on blockchain. It forms a network where payments are routed through nodes without having to trust anyone. It's scalable and private.

You conveniently forgot to mention that you have to have a lightning node connected to the network 24/7 to protect yourself from fraud. Or, you have to use and trust a third party node.

Can you elaborate on this? I was under the impression that each update had to be signed. Why then would you have to be connected 24/7 to protect yourself from fraud?

Re: Twitter enables tipping with Bitcoin, plans to let users authenticate NFTs

#123

Post by zapdrive »

pontus wrote: post #122
zapdrive wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You conveniently forgot to mention that you have to have a lightning node connected to the network 24/7 to protect yourself from fraud. Or, you have to use and trust a third party node.

Can you elaborate on this? I was under the impression that each update had to be signed. Why then would you have to be connected 24/7 to protect yourself from fraud?

A dishonest node can try to settle an outdated state of the channel on the main chain. You have 24 hours to stop that from happening. So, if your node is offline for longer than 24 hours, you could lose all the money tied up in the channel.

Re: Twitter enables tipping with Bitcoin, plans to let users authenticate NFTs

#124

Post by gwicks56 »

pontus wrote: post #122
zapdrive wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You conveniently forgot to mention that you have to have a lightning node connected to the network 24/7 to protect yourself from fraud. Or, you have to use and trust a third party node.

Can you elaborate on this? I was under the impression that each update had to be signed. Why then would you have to be connected 24/7 to protect yourself from fraud?

Everytime the balance in the channel is updated, a new transaction is created and signed. If one party in the channel publishes an old state ( which they could have more bitcoin than they should), you have to be online to detect it and publish the latest one, in which case they lose all their bitcoin for publishing an old state as punishment.

Technically you don't need to be online 24/7, just often enough to detect the fraud before the timeout, default is two weeks I think. Or you can pay someone a tiny fee to monitor the blockchain for someone publishing an old state for you.

In practice, nobody is trying to commit fraud, because : a) if you get caught you get punished severely b) most channels do not have enough BTC in them

Lightning is for small, instant, fast payments, average channel size is about 0.02 BTC.

The bigger problem is how to maintain up to date backups, and not accidentally publish an old state when recovering from a crash. We're working on it. Taproot bitcoin upgrade brings some interesting improvements we can build upon to improve things further.

EDIT: forgot to mention this is only really a problem if you want to run your own non custodial solution ( which I do). For most people, using a 3rd party custodial solution for their low balance hot wallet seems to be the norm.

Re: Twitter enables tipping with Bitcoin, plans to let users authenticate NFTs

#125

Post by zapdrive »

gwicks56 wrote: post #124
pontus wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on this? I was under the impression that each update had to be signed. Why then would you have to be connected 24/7 to protect yourself from fraud?

Everytime the balance in the channel is updated, a new transaction is created and signed. If one party in the channel publishes an old state ( which they could have more bitcoin than they should), you have to be online to detect it and publish the latest one, in which case they lose all their bitcoin for publishing an old state as punishment. Technically you don't need to be online 24/7, just often enough to detect t…

> pay someone a tiny fee to monitor the blockchain

A.k.a trust a third party.

> For most people, using a 3rd party custodial solution for their low balance hot wallet seems to be the norm.

Just like Venmo or PayPal?

Re: Twitter enables tipping with Bitcoin, plans to let users authenticate NFTs

#126

Post by gwicks56 »

zapdrive wrote: post #117
bradwood wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasing the blocksize makes running a node much more expensive (due to storage, mainly) which in turn makes the network less decentralised. Bitcoin (rightly) selects for decentralisation over transaction speed, hence LN as an L2...

Bitcoin blockchain size: 350 gb 12tb harddrive: $199. Bitcoin blockchain is increasing at less than 100gb per year. The storage cost of 100gb is about $1.6 I'm sure people running nodes can spend more than 1.6 a year to store a bigger chain.

As someone who runs a full node, this is not accurate at all. Space is cheap, bandwidth is expensive. I frequently upload > 1TB a month via my full node, if blocks were twice as big and full, then I would be uploading > 2TB a month. How many people in the world have an internet connection which can handle that? Then you have to process each block, the bigger they are, the most computation needs to be done. Everything is a trade off, Bitcoin has chosen decentralization over throughput, other chains have chosen differently.

Re: Twitter enables tipping with Bitcoin, plans to let users authenticate NFTs

#127

Post by gwicks56 »

zapdrive wrote: post #125
gwicks56 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everytime the balance in the channel is updated, a new transaction is created and signed. If one party in the channel publishes an old state ( which they could have more bitcoin than they should), you have to be online to detect it and publish the latest one, in which case they lose all their bitcoin for publishing an old state as punishment. Technically you don't need to be online 24/7, just often enough to detect t…

> pay someone a tiny fee to monitor the blockchain A.k.a trust a third party. > For most people, using a 3rd party custodial solution for their low balance hot wallet seems to be the norm. Just like Venmo or PayPal?

If you want to eliminate trust, with Bitcoin and lightning you can. If for you it's too much hassle, you don't have to. Unlike every single other blockchain, in which you have no choice but to trust centralised solutions, because they are centralised. See Solana switching their blockchain off for a while, lol [1]https://coingeek.com/solana-blockchain-implodes-what-happene...

Re: Twitter enables tipping with Bitcoin, plans to let users authenticate NFTs

#128

Post by thrashh »

blhack wrote: post #50
snarf21 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving BTC and lighting aside, I don't think most people would opt out of ads in favor of micro payments. There is a minority who have the money that would but I see nothing in society that points to making such a change possible. Do you have any studies that show people would pay for news/socials/etc. in exchange for no ads/tracking/+privacy? Even the paid streaming services have ads and even when you pay, I'm sure…

Many people already have opted out of ads. People like Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi who have massive, lucrative substacks, for instance. Many others have done patreon. Many, many youtube creators and podcasters have strong incomes due to that.

What percentage of regular people participate in these schemes though?

Re: Twitter enables tipping with Bitcoin, plans to let users authenticate NFTs

#129

Post by missinfo »

Imnimo wrote: post #66

I'm having a very hard time imagining a scenario in which I would feel the need to tip someone for a Tweet. I understand why I might want to pay someone for, say, a Youtube video, or a substack article. But is there really enough value packed into a tweet that I'd want to send someone money for it? Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough. Or maybe the answer is porn.

If it made me laugh or found it insightful, I could see tipping $0.25 - $1 quite often.

Re: Twitter enables tipping with Bitcoin, plans to let users authenticate NFTs

#130

Post by m348e912 »

gwicks56 wrote: post #126
zapdrive wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin blockchain size: 350 gb 12tb harddrive: $199. Bitcoin blockchain is increasing at less than 100gb per year. The storage cost of 100gb is about $1.6 I'm sure people running nodes can spend more than 1.6 a year to store a bigger chain.

As someone who runs a full node, this is not accurate at all. Space is cheap, bandwidth is expensive. I frequently upload > 1TB a month via my full node, if blocks were twice as big and full, then I would be uploading > 2TB a month. How many people in the world have an internet connection which can handle that? Then you have to process each block, the bigger they are, the most computation needs to be done. Everything…

I don't run a node but I imagine if you're conscious about bandwidth you can choose not to upload anything (or very little) and still have the opportunity to maintain an up-to-date copy of the blockchain.
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