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Introducing Age Verification

blog.roblox.com

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Re: Introducing Age Verification

#121

Post by derefr »

tialaramex wrote: post #92
kosei wrote: post #2

Though I applaud the effort to get age right and protect players, I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable having me or my child scan our photo ID and selfie to upload it as part of a login flow to an application.

I would much prefer my government to take on responsibility for providing this sort of service as they do e.g. driver qualification. Once upon a time the usual thing to get OK'd to rent a van (e.g. for students who are moving house) is you rock up to the rental place with the legal documents showing you're entitled to drive. You're relying on the fact that the person renting you a van doesn't much care and isn't keep…

In Canada we have https://verified.me/government-sign-in-by-verified-me/, which is ultimately “the government taking on responsibility for providing this sort of service” — but the government then turning around and delegating that responsibility to major banks (the Verified.Me service acting as the SSO intermediary, is a joint venture of seven major Canadian banks, and then supports other non-shareholding financial institutions as well.) Since you need a proof of identity to open a bank account, an SSO through your bank functions as a pretty good proof of identity.

Right now, the Verified.Me service sends through your actual non-anonymized identity (Social Security Number, I think) to the service being signed into, meaning it’s only really good for services you’d want to hand information like that to anyway (i.e. government service websites.)

But it’d be only a little tweak to enable a provider like this to send the service being logged into a persisted random-per-service token, or a per-service-salted hash of that info, instead. If this was done, a flow like this would then be perfect for KYC/AML: it would precisely restrict each legal person to only having one account per service, while also not revealing who that legal person is to that service. And the only person in this flow who’d ever see your ID, is the bank clerk you interacted with to open your bank account, years/decades earlier.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#122

Post by jackson1442 »

donmcronald wrote: post #68
Animats wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Roblox's S-1 filing, they want to move their customer base up from the current average age of 13. Age verification is for older users, so they can be less restricted. Roblox has a large outsourced "moderation" operation, and is working on an AI system that can bring down the ban hammer in 100ms after saying a bad word. Tencent already does this in China. Tencent owns 49% of Roblox. So the technology is a…

> According to Roblox's S-1 filing, they want to move their customer base up from the current average age of 13. I'm guessing that's because things like COPPA don't apply to 13+ and identity verification lets them start building accurate PII profiles for children the day they turn 13. What a nasty business.

As long as I can remember, you could attest that you’re over 13 on Roblox with zero proof and that would grant them the right to collect data anyways.

I think the goal here is to expand into 18+ where there’s less need for chat moderation (save for slurs) and game moderation, while still having a sandboxed environment where parents are comfortable letting their kids use without exposure to the 18+ content.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#123

Post by adolph »

tialaramex wrote: post #92
kosei wrote: post #2

Though I applaud the effort to get age right and protect players, I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable having me or my child scan our photo ID and selfie to upload it as part of a login flow to an application.

I would much prefer my government to take on responsibility for providing this sort of service as they do e.g. driver qualification. Once upon a time the usual thing to get OK'd to rent a van (e.g. for students who are moving house) is you rock up to the rental place with the legal documents showing you're entitled to drive. You're relying on the fact that the person renting you a van doesn't much care and isn't keep…

> "Look, I'm a citizen, here's proof"

Sounds a bit like e-verify. Don’t forget to lard it up with some denials for folks on domestic terrorist watchlists, wife beaters, bench warrants for parking tix, etc. etc.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#124

Post by cybernautique »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #3
kosei wrote: post #2

Though I applaud the effort to get age right and protect players, I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable having me or my child scan our photo ID and selfie to upload it as part of a login flow to an application.

A component of my work is in digital identity, so I hope you don’t mind the question: what would make you comfortable doing so? For Roblox, I can see the exception taken, but some applications do require this level of identity proofing (scanning your passport in an airline mobile app to book an international flight comes to mind). Edit: Thank you everyone for your feedback, it’s very helpful!

Absolutely nothing. "Digital" identities should be exactly that. I will never be comfortable identifying myself beyond my activity. If you require more data, then your services aren't for me, unless you're a municipal provider.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#125

Post by hndamien »

This appears to be designed to encourage the user to lie. I have never seen a workflow where a low age enables some type of restriction and that restriction is disclose when asking your age for verification. This is a first.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#126

Post by drsnow »

gruez wrote: post #112
_jal wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't do this. If your service demands my ID, I'll close my account. If you have KYC requirements, I'll meet you in person or find a different vendor.

>If you have KYC requirements, I'll meet you in person or find a different vendor. that's literally not an option when it comes to crypto exchanges.

localbitcoins exists

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#127

Post by drsnow »

Animats wrote: post #32
watermelon0 wrote: post #9

Where does the need for hard verification of the age come from? My friends and I were using the internet when we were under 13 years old (although not by much), and just clicked the button to confirm that we are older than 13 (mostly on various forums), and later on the same thing with 18 years old verification screens, and we turned out alright (at least from my perspective.)

According to Roblox's S-1 filing, they want to move their customer base up from the current average age of 13. Age verification is for older users, so they can be less restricted. Roblox has a large outsourced "moderation" operation, and is working on an AI system that can bring down the ban hammer in 100ms after saying a bad word. Tencent already does this in China. Tencent owns 49% of Roblox. So the technology is a…

Lol, does it really take an entire AI system to autoban someone who says a bad word?

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#128

Post by smitop »

nobody9999 wrote: post #103
donmcronald wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> COPPA imposes certain requirements on operators of websites or online services directed to children under 13 years of age, and on operators of other websites or online services that have actual knowledge that they are collecting personal information online from a child under 13 years of age. I didn't read the whole thing. I plan to one day though because I want to see what the rules are, but, to me, that summary so…

>Here's a wild idea... How about not collecting the personal information of children? Here's an even wilder one: How about not collecting personal information? Full stop.

COPPA has a very broad definition of personal information (see https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/part-312). "Online contact information" counts as personal information, and that includes email addresses, IRC nicks, IM usernames, etc. Some other things that count as personal information under COPPA are IP addresses, the user's voice, and full names. Virtually all online services with user accounts collect personal information as defined by COPPA.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#129

Post by cinntaile »

LegitShady wrote: post #100
cinntaile wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Built-in watermark support. When the system eventually gets hacked and the pictures end up in the hands of hackers, their use will be limited due to a "COMPANY + DATE" watermark plastered all over.

the company will either go out of business as people claim costs associated with the breach, or you would get a $10 settlement from a class action. The watermark isn't worth anything, and doesn't add any trust.

Reality disagrees with your theory though. Most companies that get their data breached are still in business and class action lawsuits aren't even a thing in most countries in the world (maybe the US is the only country that has that?).

The watermark is an extra threshold. It's like an extra bike lock, they'll get the bike with only one lock instead.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#130

Post by Spivak »

loonster wrote: post #118
Spivak wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a bar? Ya know, to verify your age.

I dont drink ay places that need to scan my ID and keep a record of it.

You've never been to a bar that swipes the mag strip on your ID? Or the many doctor's offices that take scans of your ID with your insurance card?

I'm totally on board with ID cards not having your address on them because of the stalking potential but it's an ID card, if it has to be secret for it for it to be useful it's a really shitty form of identification.

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