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Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

nytimes.com

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Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#121

Post by sidkshatriya »

ekianjo wrote: post #46
imgabe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve also been a customer at establishments with deaf employees and none of them ever had a sign language interpreter. Providing an iPad to type messages on is a reasonable accommodation. Customers who don’t like it can work with another employee or go elsewhere. But hiring a second entire employee who basically shadows you and does your job for you seems like a bit much.

> Providing an iPad to type messages on is a reasonable accommodation Doesn't that make communication slower? When I want to buy something, I certainly don't want to start chatting on a tablet to get my point across. It seems like a poor choice of position for that employee.

It can be difficult to communicate this way but I think there is a social benefit to making the extra effort for people with disabilities. Often you don’t choose to be disabled. What if you were unlucky to be disabled? Would you like your opportunities to be thoroughly reduced in life? I try to make an effort because I could have been in that employee’s shoes. I am lucky… this is the least I can do.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#122

Post by fortran77 »

vimy wrote: post #5

If I was Tim Cook I would immediately shutdown slack and mandate everyone go back to using email. It’s always a tiny minority of activists organizing on slack who are causing a lot of the unrest in tech companies.

Tim Cook reaps what he sows. He started all this when he fired Antonio García Martínez in response to an employee petition. (Hint to Tim Cook: You should have fired each and every one of the employees who signed that petition.)

He made the wrong, worst people at the company feel "empowered" and now there's no stopping them.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#123

Post by lotsofpulp »

ProAm wrote: post #75
anonporridge wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple stores offer this on a scheduled basis, https://9to5mac.com/2021/02/25/apple-retail-store-sign-langu... It's a completely different thing to expect a company to hire 2 people (with 2 full time salary and benefits) when 1 will do. Especially for a low skill job that has no real shortage of potential workers.

> to hire 2 people (with 2 full time salary and benefits) when 1 will do For one of the most profitable companies in the world, this doesn't seem outrageous (1 extra employee per store, maybe full time, likely not) especially given the fact that Apple doesn't support right-to-repair they will naturally have more foot traffic than most similar businesses.

These kinds of arguments are pointless because laws need to be simple and avoid unnecessary cliffs in defining who or what is being affected.

The law is not going to work if it says “the most profitable companies need to pay for 2 people when 1 will do”. And then how does it work if profits fluctuate?

It is simply much easier for the government to pay to accomplish whatever goal it wants, and at the same time does not obfuscate the price of achieving that goal. If the government wants to help deaf people be employed, then the government should pay an interpreter to help the deaf person be employed.

Is that not much simpler than arbitrarily requiring various other entities to comply with nebulous requirements and then spend resources policing them?

Of course, it is cheaper for the government to do the latter, and then spend more money policing them since in the former situation, it is easy to project how much the government will need to spend, and in the latter, the government can use some bullshit assumptions to make up whatever budget they want.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#124

Post by slothtrop »

barbazoo wrote: post #74
imgabe wrote: post #8

> Richard Dahan, who is deaf, said he had struggled at his former job at an Apple Store in Maryland for six years because his manager refused to provide a sign-language interpreter for him to communicate with customers, which federal law requires under some circumstances. This just doesn't seem like a reasonable accommodation for a retail job. Your whole job is to communicate with the customers. If you need to hire a…

It's a form of inclusion that might not be perfectly efficient as you point out but greatly improves lives of people with disabilities.

There are other ways to include them and improve their lives.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#125

Post by luffapi »

imgabe wrote: post #8

> Richard Dahan, who is deaf, said he had struggled at his former job at an Apple Store in Maryland for six years because his manager refused to provide a sign-language interpreter for him to communicate with customers, which federal law requires under some circumstances. This just doesn't seem like a reasonable accommodation for a retail job. Your whole job is to communicate with the customers. If you need to hire a…

Only on HackerNews does someone read this story and decide the handicapped retail worker is the bad guy.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#126

Post by fortran77 »

FFRefresh wrote: post #102

There are a few bigger stories at play here (amongst many) that I see this article as an instance of: 1. Cultural 'meme' & trend that has dramatically spread throughout mostly american, urban, educated, elite/elite-adjacent spaces over the last 7-9 years that lionizes and rewards those who can claim they are a 'victim'. This meme favors certain immutable characteristics as inherently providing victimhood status. If y…

[flagged]

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#127

Post by lotsofpulp »

ALittleLight wrote: post #51

"she had left Apple after spending several years fighting a decision to reassign her to a role that she said had involved more work for less pay. She said Apple had begun trying to reassign her after she complained that the company’s work on the minerals was not, in some cases, leading to meaningful change in some war-torn countries" I'm impressed that Apple let her spend "several years" fighting a reassignment. I'm…

>She said Apple had begun trying to reassign her after she complained that the company’s work on the minerals was not, in some cases, leading to meaningful change in some war-torn countries"

What other geopolitical problems does this person think Apple should be tackling other than resolving tribal conflicts in war torn central Africa? The Taliban? Saudi Arabia’s treatment of women? Haiti’s poverty?

Ridiculous.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#128

Post by slothtrop »

magpi3 wrote: post #40
imgabe wrote: post #8

> Richard Dahan, who is deaf, said he had struggled at his former job at an Apple Store in Maryland for six years because his manager refused to provide a sign-language interpreter for him to communicate with customers, which federal law requires under some circumstances. This just doesn't seem like a reasonable accommodation for a retail job. Your whole job is to communicate with the customers. If you need to hire a…

The employee is deaf. He needs an interpreter to understand the customer's speech. He does not need the interpreter to respond to that speech. He would be performing his job. Your drywall analogy is insulting.

> He does not need the interpreter to respond to that speech.

How familiar are you with the deaf? If this was a lifelong affliction they (likely) won't verbally communicate and even if they do it's not something that can be parsed clearly enough for retail.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#129

Post by optimiz3 »

kyleee wrote: post #72
stickfigure wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stop shopping in places where the customer service is slow. Such is life.

Would you ditch Apple if you had a customer service experience with a deaf person and it took 3-5 minutes longer than it would have with a hearing person?

Would you ditch Apple if you had a customer service experience and it took 3-5 minutes longer?

Fixed it, and maybe. A decline in customer experience provides incentive for Apple to optimize the slower customer service folks out of the picture.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#130

Post by Supermancho »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #36
s5300 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is definitely a bit of a conundrum though. One must keep in mind that the United States is and near or more always has been a welfare state. We're supposed to have governments and organizations to come up with solutions to these types of societal problems we encounter. The way you seem to be looking at it - yes, I mostly agree that the company should not outright be expected to essentially hire another fully time…

> One must keep in mind that the United States is and near or more always has been a welfare state. If one must keep that in mind, may one ask what definition of "welfare state" has applied to the USA since its founding?

https://socialwelfare.library.vcu.edu/events/1700s/

I'm sure there's plenty. From the Federalist years (George Washington onward) to modern times, the federal government assumed both the responsibility and the management of the US resources as the political winds found necessary. To what degree, has only grown over time in spurts and fits.

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