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Mark Cuban: If you want to see more jobs created -- change patent laws

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Re: Mark Cuban: If you want to see more jobs created -- change patent laws

#121

Post by DrJokepu »

beagle3 wrote: post #119
DrJokepu wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, assuming that such a system was adopted worldwide, you would have to pay a tax in every country of the world if you wanted your IP to be enforceable in all territories? Because if that's the case, owning IP will be so prohibitively expensive that only large corporations will be able to afford it. I'm not sure if that would be a good thing.

Well, it's already prohibitively expensive to get patents all over the world, and -- People keep forgetting that -- a patent is an offensive measure - it gives you the right to sue and litigate, but not much else! If you don't have the money to litigate, your patent is already worthless. In some countries, litigation is cheap; but in the US, you need $200k-$500k available to have a chance to enforce your patents. App…

This might be true for patents, but don't forget that copyright is (mostly) free. If any band, indie developer, unsuccessful writer and amateur photographer would have to pay such large fees for simply owning their works, what would happen?

Re: Mark Cuban: If you want to see more jobs created -- change patent laws

#122

Post by Goladus »

So he makes an excellent point, especially for the long run, but I must admit the tech sector is not currently facing serious job issues. Of course it would probably be more beneficial to the economy and to society to have Google hiring employees instead of buying patents, but that's not going to save Detroit.

Re: Mark Cuban: If you want to see more jobs created -- change patent laws

#123

Post by beagle3 »

DrJokepu wrote: post #121
beagle3 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's already prohibitively expensive to get patents all over the world, and -- People keep forgetting that -- a patent is an offensive measure - it gives you the right to sue and litigate, but not much else! If you don't have the money to litigate, your patent is already worthless. In some countries, litigation is cheap; but in the US, you need $200k-$500k available to have a chance to enforce your patents. App…

This might be true for patents, but don't forget that copyright is (mostly) free. If any band, indie developer, unsuccessful writer and amateur photographer would have to pay such large fees for simply owning their works, what would happen?

They simply declare them worth zero for the year, and pay nothing. They still own the copyright. And if 5 years down the line, they realize someone else is making a profit of it, they declare a reasonable value at the end of that year, pay the tax, and collect their fees (through court or otherwise).

Re: Mark Cuban: If you want to see more jobs created -- change patent laws

#124

Post by lists »

Is the tech industry really that influential for job growth in America? Say everything Cuban says is true, wouldn't there only be a marginal difference between today and his tomorrow? Aren't the majority of unemployed non-tech specialists?

It isn't clear to me why money lying around necessarily entails job growth in the tech industry, especially for larger software firms but even smaller ones. But again, I feel this would only be marginal contribution to the job situation were it the case.

Re: Mark Cuban: If you want to see more jobs created -- change patent laws

#125

Post by donnaware »

Yes, the patent syste is broken, but here is what I think is at the crux of it. What happens is that the patent office is completely overwhelmed by, not only the volume but the complexity of the patents being filed. So what they do is basically punt it to the courts. They take a cursory look at a filing and if it is not too obviously a bad patent they grant it and then let the interested parties fight it out in court. So that is what is driving the patent troll problem.

To do it right you really need the patent office to a real in depth analysis so that when the patent is finally granted it can really mean something.

Politically, that is simply not possible because it would require an expansion of the Federal Government which we all know now is somehow a horrifying thought.

Re: Mark Cuban: If you want to see more jobs created -- change patent laws

#126

Post by beagle3 »

phamilton wrote: post #114
beagle3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intellectual "Property Tax". Have everyone declare the value of their intellectual "property" (patents, copyrights, trademarks) - each and every item, for that year, on their tax return, and have them pay 1% of the value as "IP tax". That amount is what one pays for a compulsory license or if successfully sued, and up to 3 times that for willful infringement, per year -- and no more. (But of course, patent owner can…

I like the idea. One problem would be spiking fees. Company A licenses a patent from company B for the yearly fee of $1 per instance. Company A builds a successful product with 100k units sold. The next year, Company B decides to declare a 10x value on the patent. Company A, committed to the technology, either has to pay it or start over. I guess this could be solved by long term lock ins at specific fees.

Exactly. If you build on someone else's (intellectual) property, you better have an agreement with them. However, the ip tax would make it harder to claim an idea is worth $400,000,000 (eolas, i4i) unless it makes sense, because maintaining that claim would cost $4M a year.

Re: Mark Cuban: If you want to see more jobs created -- change patent laws

#127

Post by [deleted] »

ender7 wrote: post #4

All right, so we all agree that software patents are a problem. So what do we do? A). Abolish software patents. Existing software patents, or parts of patents that govern software, are nullified. B). ??? Personally, I'm fine with A, but I would like to hear a really good B. Anyone? Bonus points: Provide a list of ~5 software patents that are "good" software patents. Something were granting the patent led to innovatio…

[deleted]

Re: Mark Cuban: If you want to see more jobs created -- change patent laws

#128

Post by joe_the_user »

beagle3 wrote: post #58
ender7 wrote: post #4

All right, so we all agree that software patents are a problem. So what do we do? A). Abolish software patents. Existing software patents, or parts of patents that govern software, are nullified. B). ??? Personally, I'm fine with A, but I would like to hear a really good B. Anyone? Bonus points: Provide a list of ~5 software patents that are "good" software patents. Something were granting the patent led to innovatio…

Intellectual "Property Tax". Have everyone declare the value of their intellectual "property" (patents, copyrights, trademarks) - each and every item, for that year, on their tax return, and have them pay 1% of the value as "IP tax". That amount is what one pays for a compulsory license or if successfully sued, and up to 3 times that for willful infringement, per year -- and no more. (But of course, patent owner can…

Bad idea for several reasons:

1) Patents are monopolies to begin with. A monopoly can generally pass its costs on to the consumer. So the companies now being harassed by intellectual property leeches would just feel a bigger bits

2) The government getting revenue from patents would be an incentive for the government to expand patents.

3) It would legitimize the patents even further.

4) It would be a quick way for a company to claim a huge value. Even if it cost the company some taxes, showing a return that said "10 million dollars in intellectual property" would be a fabulous way to convince a naive investor you really had something worth 10 million dollars - that they could buy for a cheap only 1 million dollars.

...

I could probably go on. File under "the seductive lure of perverse incentives..."

Re: Mark Cuban: If you want to see more jobs created -- change patent laws

#129

Post by corin_ »

noonespecial wrote: post #94
beagle3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intellectual "Property Tax". Have everyone declare the value of their intellectual "property" (patents, copyrights, trademarks) - each and every item, for that year, on their tax return, and have them pay 1% of the value as "IP tax". That amount is what one pays for a compulsory license or if successfully sued, and up to 3 times that for willful infringement, per year -- and no more. (But of course, patent owner can…

I love this idea. I can't own a house or a car without paying tax on it every year. If they insist that its intellectual "property", then they'd best start treating it like property.

You don't pay any tax in relation to the fact that a house or a car is property, it's based on (depending where you live) stuff like local services, roads, etc.

If you buy a £50k rolex do you have to pay tax on it every year?

Re: Mark Cuban: If you want to see more jobs created -- change patent laws

#130

Post by keithpeter »

ender7 wrote: post #4

All right, so we all agree that software patents are a problem. So what do we do? A). Abolish software patents. Existing software patents, or parts of patents that govern software, are nullified. B). ??? Personally, I'm fine with A, but I would like to hear a really good B. Anyone? Bonus points: Provide a list of ~5 software patents that are "good" software patents. Something were granting the patent led to innovatio…

B) Set up specialised patent courts. A central one for large complex cases. Local ones for smaller cases with limits on liabilities. Those representing clients in the central court must be qualified in patent law. Judges make out cases and set liability. The barrier to fanciful claims would be set higher.

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=10...

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