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September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

911realtime.org

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Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#121

Post by rebuilder »

telesilla wrote: post #50
rebuilder wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure at all the pandemic is going to be more significant historically. The 9/11 attacks did what Al-Qaeda intended them to - got the USA mired in an expensive, unwinnable war, which ultimately broke the US will to fight and seems to have resulted in a major reconfiguration of US foreign policy.

Let's wait a while. The long term effects of the pandemic are yet to set in.

I see your point, but I have a hard time imagining how, 20 years down the line, we could point to the SARS-COV2 pandemic as a principal cause of historic change the way the 9/11 attacks were. Contributing factor? Sure, I'm sure it'll have all kinds of downstream effects.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#122

Post by polytely »

tommymachine wrote: post #114
polytely wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heart disease and cancer aren't contagious, so your actions on that front will only improve your own life, while being a bit more careful with covid will potentially prevent sickness in a lot of people.

So heart disease and cancer don't take up ICU beds?

Not what I wrote at all.

But to respond to your point(?) covid patients that get sick enough to go to the ICU are there for a long time, while heart patients get better (or die) significantly faster, I recently heard an ICU doctor say on TV here (the Netherlands) that a covid ICU bed could help up to 8 heart patients, which makes it extra important to reduce the amount of covid cases.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#123

Post by dotancohen »

davidw wrote: post #12

I'm old enough to have pretty vivid memories of watching a lot of this live. I don't really want to relive it. Keep the memories alive? Certainly. But rewatching? Too much. Also, while we can't change the past, we're facing a massive challenge that is devouring thousands of people on a daily basis; let's commit to doing everything we can to defeat that particular monster. That is something we can all help with, in ou…

  > But rewatching? Too much.
I remember seeing the SRB trails of OV-099 in the sky. Twenty years later it was possible to rewatch that on Youtube, but I couldn't bring myself to do it.

But by now, I've watch that video and a few documentaries. I had no personal loss on January 26 1986, but it still took some time for me to be able to digest it. And I'm glad that I did.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#124

Post by diskzero »

Watching the footage on this site reminds me of how I watched the events unfold on 9/11. I was at work at Apple in IL2 (Building 2 of the Infinite Loop campus.) People started getting calls on their desk phones and co-workers coming in started to share the news. An email came from Steve Jobs which I can't remember the exact contents of. One thing the email did have, was a link that was a live video news stream of the events unfolding.

The campus entered a type of lock-down. The gates to the parking garages were closed, the front-doors to the building were locked and security blocked the entrances to the campus with their vehicles. At the time, work was sort of my family so I didn't consider that some people probably wanted to leave right away to be with their loved ones. I assume they were able to do so with some effort.

Things obviously changed in the world that day. At Apple, the underground gates to the garages were always closed and you had to badge in. Security personnel were posted in the lobbies and badging in and "tailgating" were taken very seriously. The doors to the inner campus were now locked and you had to badge in and out. These were all really minor things, but it made you realize that things were no longer going to be the same as before.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#125

Post by polytely »

chitowneats wrote: post #73
polytely wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heart disease and cancer aren't contagious, so your actions on that front will only improve your own life, while being a bit more careful with covid will potentially prevent sickness in a lot of people.

Social contagion is real. The U.S. has much higher rates of illness and death due to complications from obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc, than other developed countries, because of our shared culture of poor diet and sedentary lifestyle. You pass on your way of life to your children. Your friends and family reinforce each other's decisions every time you make a meal, make plans, etc. This stuff is all vita…

Fair point, but from a perspective of effort vs potential lives saved, self-quarantining when sick, avoiding large crowds & meeting in well ventilated spaces is probably easier than adopting a healthier lifestyle. But yeah, we should also live healthier!

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#126

Post by corpo_punisho »

tommymachine wrote: post #114
polytely wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heart disease and cancer aren't contagious, so your actions on that front will only improve your own life, while being a bit more careful with covid will potentially prevent sickness in a lot of people.

So heart disease and cancer don't take up ICU beds?

COVID is incredibly dangerous primarily because of how it is spread, not primarily because sick people are taking up hospital beds.

The pandemic is first and foremost a health issue, not a resource issue.

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#127

Post by tommymachine »

polytely wrote: post #122
tommymachine wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So heart disease and cancer don't take up ICU beds?

Not what I wrote at all. But to respond to your point(?) covid patients that get sick enough to go to the ICU are there for a long time, while heart patients get better (or die) significantly faster, I recently heard an ICU doctor say on TV here (the Netherlands) that a covid ICU bed could help up to 8 heart patients, which makes it extra important to reduce the amount of covid cases.

Do heart disease and cancer exacerbate covid conditions, putting more people in icu (and for longer) than if they didn't have those comorbidities?

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#129

Post by rebuilder »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #116
farmerstan wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Al qaeda won. They destroyed the way of American life before 9-11. We are a different country now. So much government control over the last 20 years because of the 9-11 like TSA, Patriot act, massive government surveillance all in the name of “Homeland Security”. Anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers exist precisely because of 9-11. The distrust from all of the secret government acts is only part of the equation. The t…

I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted. What you’re saying is accurate. I don’t think the terrorists had the foresight to predict this kind of fallout from 9/11, but it has certainly happened none the less.

Bin-laden directly stated Al-Qaeda's goal was to bankrupt the USA. [1] Now that's not what literally happened obviously, but adjusting for propaganda hyperbole and considering he went on to elaborate that they intend to do to the USA what they did to the Soviets - make the war too costly to be worth fighting - it seems their strategy panned out pretty well.

Of course, I don't know that they could have predicted the US invasion of Iraq, for example. On the one hand, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but OTOH Al-Qaeda might have foreseen that the US leadership would not let a good crisis go to waste.

Maybe the main plan was just to fight in Afghanistan, where they know they can carry out guerilla warfare indefinitely, and whatever else shakes out is probably going to play into Al-Qaeda's pocket anyway.

Really the main victory Al-Qaeda and other Islamist terror groups have won is being able to frame the discourse around their atrocities as Islamic terror. It creates tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims, which leads to oppression of Muslims, which increases recruitment. In this dynamic, the worse the terror groups are, the more adherents they gain.

1: https://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape...

Re: September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time

#130

Post by chitowneats »

polytely wrote: post #125
chitowneats wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social contagion is real. The U.S. has much higher rates of illness and death due to complications from obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc, than other developed countries, because of our shared culture of poor diet and sedentary lifestyle. You pass on your way of life to your children. Your friends and family reinforce each other's decisions every time you make a meal, make plans, etc. This stuff is all vita…

Fair point, but from a perspective of effort vs potential lives saved, self-quarantining when sick, avoiding large crowds & meeting in well ventilated spaces is probably easier than adopting a healthier lifestyle. But yeah, we should also live healthier!

Absolutely. Everyone should self-quarantine when sick. Is it your sense that large numbers of Americans aren't doing this? Anecdotally, I haven't seen a visibly sick person, outside of my immediate family, in a long, long time (needless to say, I don't work in a healthcare setting).

Arguably, retrofitting every important building in the country to be well ventilated is a challenge on a similar scale to changing our deeply ingrained unhealthy cultural habits.

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