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Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

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Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#121

Post by beaner »

glogla wrote: post #92
beaner wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you mention hydroxychloroquine as if it were snake oil? At least some hospitals here administered it as part of their covid routine, ostensibly because they believed it helped according to the science.

As far as I understand, they were using it before we had the vaccine as "it might work, it might not, better than nothing". But I don't know the details. I think the practice was discontinued later? But the space it occupied in the public debate (at least around here) was the same Ivermectin does now - not "better than nothing" but "use this instead of the vaccine because evil media and pharma and gubmint is lying to…

The other side of it is that it was unnecessarily lambasted and made to seem unscientific when it was being administered by our hospitals.

People would go in Twitter and shout "people promoting HCQ are idiots!" while their grandpa was in the hospital on that very drug as administered by doctors.

Neither side has been entirely rational.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#123

Post by john_minsk »

dataflow wrote: post #81
ErikVandeWater wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can see from this and other examples how the CDC lying to the public has backfired immensely. Not that the CDC is incentivized much to care. The bigger the crisis the bigger the funding.

> We can see from this and other examples how the CDC lying to the public has backfired immensely. I don't see a lie in this example.

“They are effective, but doctors need them more, so please don’t hoard” is different from “they are not effective”, hence is a lie.

This should be a lesson to all those corporate-like structures in public sector where they use common enterprise tactics of middle management to say things in the non-specific way so that later down the road they can cover their asses.

They had to be very specific, don’t lie, simply say about things they are not sure about “we don’t know” (hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin etc.) and do tests, never say “vaccines are safe”, but say they are 100000 times less dangerous than disease etc.

And then we could trust every word they just say as we know that they are very aware of what they are saying and they haven’t lied to us in a lot of situations before.

They should govern, but instead they play politics… wtf really.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#124

Post by zepto »

devwastaken wrote: post #31
haswell wrote: post #13

Disclaimer: I am not implying I buy into the theories about ivermectin being an effective treatment for COVID. This feels like another situation where the attempts to quell disinformation are having the opposite of their intended effect. Depending on where these people first learned of this drug, there is some pretty confusing information floating around. When someone like Bret Weinstein points out that ivermectin is…

The announcement is for people with basic reasoning skills, not for those that take drugs based on Facebook posts. Ivermectin, like many drugs, is used for various things. COVID is not one of them, and those pushing it have no expertise to understand the medical studies, nor are they interested in doing a comprehensive evaluation. Yet again, actual experts aren't on the playing field, it's talking heads and hired deg…

What’s the difference between those that take drugs based on Facebook posts and those who take drugs based on TV adverts?

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#125

Post by HideousKojima »

nikanj wrote: post #28

I love how they forgot about hydroxychloroquine. Wasn’t that one supposed to be the silver bullet that big pharma was hiding?

Well there was that study published in the Lancet dunking on HCQ using manufactured data that even made it past peer review. This despite the data failing the most basic of smell tests:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#126

Post by gorwell »

swang wrote: post #70
gorwell wrote: post #15

Conflating veterinary horse paste ivermectin with the human version of ivermectin is one of the most brazen lies I've ever seen from the American media, who is actively pushing pharmaceutical industry propaganda. Just one of many examples this week: "Joe Rogan has told his Instagram followers he has been taking ivermectin, a deworming veterinary drug formulated for use in cows and horses, to help fight the coronaviru…

they are not conflating it. they literally describe the difference in the article you posted. > Dr. David Boulware of the University of Minnesota says the drug’s side effects are mild at two or even three times the usual human dose. But formulations for farm animals might contain 1,000 times what’s safe for humans. People need a prescription for Ivermectin (human dosage) but since they can't do that. They're taking t…

Ask yourself: why does the big photo only show the veterinary version? Why do so many headlines classify it as horse paste medicine? They are fully aware most people only read the headlines or above the fold. They bury mention of human dosage to have plausible deniability, knowing most people won't ever see it.

As for Merck, they are creating a new, patented version for Covid use. They want ivermectin discredited because anyone can make it. This is how that industry operates.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#127

Post by beaner »

watwut wrote: post #116
beaner wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are. If they weren't, they'd say "People are overdosing on ivermectin by taking doses intended for Horses." Instead they call the drug itself a "horse dewormer," and make it sound like that's its exclusive use, and that it should not be taken by humans in any dose. That's false.

Sounds like you are really splitting hair there.

People know when they're being played for fools and if you don't treat them as if they're capable of nuance you will only lose their trust and push them further away.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#128

Post by haswell »

tlogan wrote: post #98

Really crazy times: - doctors say: take a vaccine but people say “I don’t trust big pharma” - random guy say take ivermectin and people say “great I trust pharma”. Merck is marking tons of money now. So this is all about packaging of the message. I think the only way to convince people to take vaccine is that Binden (and democrats) starts telling people not to take one… This is just beyond stupid and this is all resu…

To be fair, ivermectin is an old drug with a well established safety record ... when using proper human dosing.

The COVID vaccines are only just getting their first full approvals.

If someone is evaluating the drugs purely on their long term track record of safety, ivermectin wins by a long shot.

But none of that really matters, because the problem is about efficacy. It might be "safer" to take ivermectin in a vacuum than one of the vaccines, but that doesn't matter if ivermectin doesn't protect you and you die of COVID anyway.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#129

Post by karaterobot »

dboreham wrote: post #16

Note for readers like me inside the liberal media bubble: the Ivermectin craze isn't 100% nonsense where hillbillies take their horse medicine. As the article notes, it's been seriously studied in various countries and so far afaik hasn't been proved to not be effective.

You have to positively demonstrate that a treatment is effective and safe enough to prescribe. It's not enough for something to have not yet been proven not to work. Otherwise, you could sell gumdrops as a cure for cancer, because nobody has proved gumdrops don't cure cancer. Technically true, but not responsible medicine!

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#130

Post by zepto »

tomnipotent wrote: post #107
mrfusion wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, only listen to doctors that you agree with.

Or get a second opinion, like a grown-up. I don't listen to the first contractor or plumber on a big job, either. There is nothing special about the position or opinions of medical professionals that I shouldn't seek additional information or help.

> Or get a second opinion, like a grown-up.

How frequently do you think people consult more than one doctor when they are sick? I know people do it for expensive, chronic conditions like cancer, but I’m guessing that for urgent infections diseases the frequency is vanishingly small.

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