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Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

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Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#121

Post by blueflow »

handrous wrote: post #119
blueflow wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think you guys are bullshitting me. What prevents me from looking up phrases from your post on the internet, pick out some social groups that also use that phrase and claim you are associated with it? There isn't even a way for you to falsify it. > There's a whole pile of twitterese phrases like this that are used to fly under moderation radar. What rule is it breaking to tell people to "google chicago shooti…

> I still think you guys are bullshitting me. What prevents me from looking up phrases from your post on the internet, pick out some social groups that also use that phrase and claim you are associated with it? There isn't even a way for you to falsify it. I understand. If you don't keep an eye on the right parts of the right sites (including, in particular, Twitter, but also others) you've probably never seen this k…

I'm very glad i wasn't born in the US.

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#122

Post by AnimalMuppet »

hairofadog wrote: post #53
blueflow wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't "dog whistle" in this case just mental gymnastics to insinuate someone did somehow secretly say things even when neither meant to nor literally said it? Excuse my childish question, was that any different from purposefully misunderstanding your parent?

At the moment there are two other responses to my comment, and they both interpret the parent comment in completely opposite ways, so I'd offer that as support for my argument that the parent comment wasn't clear. I'm using the term "dog whistle" here to mean a comment that appears to be innocuous, ambiguous, or harmless to anyone who doesn't already understand the reference, but which in fact has meaning or acts as…

How do we un-dog-whistle it?

I mean, look, if black lives matter (and they do), then all black lives matter, whether they're killed by a police officer, or whether they're killed by other blacks in inner-city violence.

We need to continue to have the conversation about police killing blacks. We also need to have a conversation about inner-city violence, and try to figure out what can be done to help. We need both. How do we have the second conversation without it being shut down as an attempt to shut down the first conversation?

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#123

Post by AzzieElbab »

thewakalix wrote: post #104
blueflow wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you google for the exact phrase "google Chicago shootings", including the word "google" This thread is the first result for me. Not kidding. Could it be that you made it up that its a dog whistle? I'm doubting your good faith here.

Google gives personalized search results. It seems Google is aware that you frequent Hacker News. DuckDuckGo has non-personalized search results: https://archive.vn/mxh08 .

I get this thread as first result from google.com in incognito window https://imgur.com/nsvBk4O

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#124

Post by handrous »

blueflow wrote: post #121
handrous wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still think you guys are bullshitting me. What prevents me from looking up phrases from your post on the internet, pick out some social groups that also use that phrase and claim you are associated with it? There isn't even a way for you to falsify it. I understand. If you don't keep an eye on the right parts of the right sites (including, in particular, Twitter, but also others) you've probably never seen this k…

I'm very glad i wasn't born in the US.

I get that.

I happened to catch an actual, no-bullshit white supremacist recruitment program on a fairly high-powered (like, literally—they have quite a bit of broadcast power) local AM radio station a few months back (I checked their schedule afterward, out of curiosity, and much of the rest was religious programming—go figure). By which I don't mean they were explicitly saying "come to the Knights of Columbus hall at 7:00 on Wednesday for our meetings", but they were going through this plainly carefully scripted soft-handed discussion (two-host format) and doing a lot of "just asking questions" but somehow those questions kept taking them right up to the edge—and I mean right up to the edge—of "it's the Jews and black people who are the problem", meanwhile they're dropping one phrase or historical reference after another that's unmistakably from white supremacist "thought", as in, encountered basically nowhere but there, so their listeners have a nice list of things to google that will definitely lead them further down the rabbit hole. It was unreal. I couldn't believe what I was hearing, but they just kept going with that stuff, relentlessly. It was the entire thing they were doing, nothing else. It was very different from normal right-wing radio, which I hear a lot of (what can I say, I have a problem and enjoy listening to nutty crap when driving) and there was no doubt what they were up to.

There's some real WTF to be found in this country. Everyone freaking out about dog whistles is ridiculous, and those accusations are abused. But then you hear something like the above, and... yeah, it's a real thing sometimes. Very strange place.

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#125

Post by nasmmim »

Tycho wrote: post #92
vb234 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been living in the US for 21 years and whenever I experience this I assume it is racism and/or prejudice. I cannot confront them so I have no way of knowing their exact reasons for doing this. Maybe I’m just socially awkward and I don’t quite know how to play native in this country. It didn’t bother me much until the last couple of years. I now have a young daughter who’s friends with a lot of the other kids in…

Since it’s generally harder to recognise people of other ethnicities, maybe they either mistakingly think it’s not you (without other context to help them), or think it might be but don’t want to take the risk of offending a stranger.

I have some kind of "face blindness". I have failed to recognize members of my own family who showed up at my house when I wasn't expecting them, and once didn't recognize my girlfriend when she saw me on the street and grabbed my arm. She called my cell phone in tears asking why I had pushed her away.

I always have to greet people with the best halfway "hello again"/"nice to meet you" slurring my words I can and watch carefully to see if they recognize me, then in a panic try to figure out who they are. It is always a terrifying experience, but on many occasions when it has been someone of a different race they've made a comment indicating they assumed it was because of their race.

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#126

Post by klyrs »

cplanas wrote: post #105
nceqs3 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark just passed a law that limits the number of non-white people in a neighborhood.

I lived in DK, and as shocking as it sounds, it's true. Just a nitpick: the law is not exactly against "non-white" people, but about "non-Western". African-Americans would count as Western, Russians would not. But in effect, the policy affects mainly Muslims: it was probably designed with that in mind.

Now I'm really curious how many African Americans are emigrating to Denmark.

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#127

Post by vmception »

InitialLastName wrote: post #88
will4274 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment hides a lot of depth and comes off as a bit flippant to me. BLM was largely triggered by cop-on-black killings. Civilian black-on-black killings (like those referred to in the quote) continue to get fairly little attention, even from the BLM organizations themselves. Indeed, this is a fairly common conservative criticism of BLM - that it's an anti-police movement, not an anti-black murder movement. (This…

The two issues (police violence targeting the black community and internal violence in the black community) are closely coupled, though. Broadly speaking, communities that don't have reliable and safe access to state-empowered law enforcement (say, if there's a threat or history of law enforcement applying violence unjustly or indiscriminately or simply an absence of law enforcement) will turn to resolving disputes i…

The primary thing that seems to change news media is a change in ownership

Alot of public opinion on things can shift as local news media is bought away from various families

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#128

Post by hairofadog »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #122
hairofadog wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the moment there are two other responses to my comment, and they both interpret the parent comment in completely opposite ways, so I'd offer that as support for my argument that the parent comment wasn't clear. I'm using the term "dog whistle" here to mean a comment that appears to be innocuous, ambiguous, or harmless to anyone who doesn't already understand the reference, but which in fact has meaning or acts as…

How do we un-dog-whistle it? I mean, look, if black lives matter (and they do), then all black lives matter, whether they're killed by a police officer, or whether they're killed by other blacks in inner-city violence. We need to continue to have the conversation about police killing blacks. We also need to have a conversation about inner-city violence, and try to figure out what can be done to help. We need both. Ho…

Totally, and if I said anything to imply I didn't consider the second topic to be worth discussing then I'd like to correct the record: I do think it's an important (albeit separate) topic.

> How do we have the second conversation without it being shut down as an attempt to shut down the first conversation?

The best answer I can give you is that it's subjective. I'm happy to have a good-faith conversation even (or especially!) with people I disagree with, but dropping "google Chicago shootings" into a drive-by comment isn't what I would consider to be making a good-faith argument.

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#129

Post by vmception »

jaywalk wrote: post #94
FactolSarin wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holding police accountable for unreasonable killings is not being anti-police.

And if that's all BLM did, far fewer people would have any issue with them. But you're simply ignoring reality if you really think that they limit themselves to unreasonable killings.

“reasonable” and “justified” are arbitrary standards created randomly across every jurisdiction

getting the “perfect case” is not really possible when the “rulings” simply match your pre existing appeal to authority or not

people are therefore pushing as many cases as possible into the national spotlight to make it more obvious that uniform accountability standards republic-wide are necessary. if you feel some other killings need more attention then do that

Re: Dorothy Butler Gilliam: ‘I am not a maid, I am a reporter’

#130

Post by KittenInABox »

dominotw wrote: post #86
KittenInABox wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I looked at University of Alabama tuition now and for an academic year was 10k in-state, or 5k/semester assuming 2 semesters a year. (With fees, room, and board, the total comes over 25k/year.) So you most certainly can't fund your education at the same institution working at a gas station now with only 5k student loans.

> With fees, room, and board, the total comes over 25k/year We lived off campus 4 ppl in a 2 bed ( ~100/head). My total living expense was ~350/month. My parents had recently immigrated, so i was totally ok with not having a "college experience" or actually knew what exactly it was. I was able to find another job on campus as an attendent at computer lab which game plenty of time to relax and do coursework. I agree t…

The University of Alabama mandates that all incoming freshmen spend at least one year fully on-campus.
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