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Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

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Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#121

Post by lotsofpulp »

ashtonkem wrote: post #72
only_as_i_fall wrote: post #14

>Second, there’s the matter of how extensively Robux (Roblox’s in-app currency) are used to navigate the creator economy. Roblox creators are paid first by receiving a cut of Robux that comes from the sale, which they can use to purchase other Roblox experiences, in-game assets, cosmetics, etc. That means once a developer enters the Robux economy, their money is all spent inside the Roblox system until they’re able t…

I wonder if the old regulations around company scrip and stores might be used to legally undermine such tactics. It doesn’t matter if you’re creating digital experiences, you must pay people with money, not company tokens.

You would first have to establish these kids were employed by Roblox, and I would predict that to be a very uphill battle.

It would be hard to argue Roblox is paying anyone in exchange for work.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#122

Post by elliekelly »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #81

See Carmack's rebuttal: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1428483898896535562 > I have been impressed by the number of real world economic and business issues that Roblox is exposing my younger son to, both in the experiences and the larger ecosystem. There is a lot of thinking in terms of effort, reward, and risk. "You seem to be ignoring the thesis of the video. For the vast majority of their creators, their…

Aren’t most modern game developers notoriously exploitative of their adult workers? And, increasingly, their users of all ages? Perhaps a “legendary” game developer isn’t the best person to weigh in on whether Roblox is “fine” or exploitative.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#123

Post by Fargren »

elliekelly wrote: post #116
rtkwe wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to withdraw it, they need to have raked in roughly $1,000 worth of Robux. It's even worse than that. They sell robux at one rate and cash them out for developers at a very different rate. That $1,000 worth of Robux becomes $350 when you go to extract it. So they're taking cuts twice, once on the actual sale and again whenever you try to turn it into real money instead of their scrip.

> That $1,000 worth of Robux becomes $350 when you go to extract it. Knowing nothing at all about Robux I’m not sure I follow. When you say “$1,000 worth of Robux” here you mean $1,000 USD, right? And not 1,000 units of Robux? So if I’m a developer on the platform and I’ve earned however many Robux equal $1,000 USD and I initiate a transfer then my actual cash receipts will be ~$350 USD? Am I understanding that corre…

Yes, you understand correctly. The minimum amount to withdraw is an amount that would cost 1000 USD to buy. When withdrawing that amount, you would get 350 USD

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#124

Post by TeMPOraL »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #81

See Carmack's rebuttal: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1428483898896535562 > I have been impressed by the number of real world economic and business issues that Roblox is exposing my younger son to, both in the experiences and the larger ecosystem. There is a lot of thinking in terms of effort, reward, and risk. "You seem to be ignoring the thesis of the video. For the vast majority of their creators, their…

> Roblox provides opportunities previously unavailable; it is up to the individuals to decide if they are worthwhile to invest time in.

Oh boy. I think we've all heard that many times before. Every exploitative business will use this line as its defense (see e.g. every controversy about employee/contractor status in the gig economy), so taken alone it isn't much of an argument.

For example, individuals can be mislead as to whether the opportunity is worthwhile to invest - with enough trickery and unsophisticated target group (e.g. Joe Random Uberdriver who never before calculated depreciation of their car), the business can exploit people for many years before they wisen up as a group.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#125

Post by spir »

only_as_i_fall wrote: post #14

>Second, there’s the matter of how extensively Robux (Roblox’s in-app currency) are used to navigate the creator economy. Roblox creators are paid first by receiving a cut of Robux that comes from the sale, which they can use to purchase other Roblox experiences, in-game assets, cosmetics, etc. That means once a developer enters the Robux economy, their money is all spent inside the Roblox system until they’re able t…

These kinds of non-level playing fields are what the ethereum community hopes to replace with open protocols and non-custodial property rights.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#126

Post by jedberg »

elliekelly wrote: post #116
rtkwe wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to withdraw it, they need to have raked in roughly $1,000 worth of Robux. It's even worse than that. They sell robux at one rate and cash them out for developers at a very different rate. That $1,000 worth of Robux becomes $350 when you go to extract it. So they're taking cuts twice, once on the actual sale and again whenever you try to turn it into real money instead of their scrip.

> That $1,000 worth of Robux becomes $350 when you go to extract it. Knowing nothing at all about Robux I’m not sure I follow. When you say “$1,000 worth of Robux” here you mean $1,000 USD, right? And not 1,000 units of Robux? So if I’m a developer on the platform and I’ve earned however many Robux equal $1,000 USD and I initiate a transfer then my actual cash receipts will be ~$350 USD? Am I understanding that corre…

I believe it is like Forex but with a really bad spread. You can buy Robux for $X USD, but when you sell robux you only get $.35X USD.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#127

Post by meheleventyone »

xmprt wrote: post #54
meheleventyone wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitch isn’t amazing at it in total but it does recommend smaller streamers to people.

I think discoverability on YouTube is 100x easier than Twitch. I've been recommended videos with a few hundred or thousand views before. The equivalent on Twitch is a 0-10 viewer stream which I've literally never come across without it being through me actively looking for a niche game, through a raid, or through (ironically) finding their channel on YouTube which linked to their Twitch.

Twitch has a "Recommended Smaller Communities" section on their user frontpage now.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#128

Post by MrStonedOne »

articles like this would do better to actually spell things out.

What is the cut. They say it's worse than other platforms, but nothing stops them from actually saying what it is.

edit: the cut roblox takes for themselves is 30% at transaction time, and 65% at withdrawal time.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#129

Post by cma »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #109
jwmhjwmh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the most legendary game developer of all time thinks Roblox is fine, are you sure he's mistaken? Isn't this an argument from authority? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority Furthermore, the video made the argument that Roblox tries to mislead kids into thinking they can make money. In other words, an individual might be wrong in thinking the opportunities are worth investing time in due to the m…

It is. And you're right to be skeptical of such arguments. But such arguments also happen all the time. For example, if you join a company as a junior developer, most people would trust an existing senior developer. I was about to write "I think it's fine to mislead kids into thinking they can make money." Then I reconsidered. After reconsidering, I think it's fine to mislead kids into thinking they can make money. L…

But he is CTO of a company trying to become Roblox which takes half the money from kids the article/video talks about, and he's CTO of a 30% app store which takes the other half of the money from kids the article/video talks about.

Why does his C-programming ability have more weight than his obvious conflict of interest weighing in here? He may be being geniune, but since he works in this exact area, it is too tainted by that to take at face value or especially to take on authority.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#130

Post by CobrastanJorji »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #109
jwmhjwmh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the most legendary game developer of all time thinks Roblox is fine, are you sure he's mistaken? Isn't this an argument from authority? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority Furthermore, the video made the argument that Roblox tries to mislead kids into thinking they can make money. In other words, an individual might be wrong in thinking the opportunities are worth investing time in due to the m…

It is. And you're right to be skeptical of such arguments. But such arguments also happen all the time. For example, if you join a company as a junior developer, most people would trust an existing senior developer. I was about to write "I think it's fine to mislead kids into thinking they can make money." Then I reconsidered. After reconsidering, I think it's fine to mislead kids into thinking they can make money. L…

Lawnmowing for a neighbor takes about an hour and earns maybe $10. Making a Roblox game takes perhaps 100 hours and is almost certainly going to result in earning $0 for everyone except the Roblox Corporation.
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