Live data from Hacker News

Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

lowtechmagazine.com

121–130 of 233 posts

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low Tech Magazine always writes like this. They always offer some idea which seems interesting on its surface but leaves gaps. They then end the article explaining away the gap with a moral polemic about how we need to change our ways and return to an older way of life. These days I just take the magazine for what it is; a medium containing interesting ideas but overall disingenuous and often impractical. (Though I d…

Re clothes dryers - many Americans don't have much choice. Most apartment buildings in the US prohibit drying clothes on the balcony (to avoid giving the impression that poor people might live there). And some towns and neighborhood HOAs prohibit outside clothes lines even for residents of single family houses.

In good income houses and apartments in Europe there is a specific place that is designed for hanging your clothes, that is not very visible from outside, like an internal patio, or an outdoor balcony with metal screens that let most sunlight and air go through, but you can't hardly see from outside.

In those places it is typically forbidden to hang clothes outside their specific places because it is not aesthetically pleasing.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#122
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL... Land of the free my ass

TIL means "Today I learned. Well today I learnt. Edit : Don't downvote. I am just the messenger. I just wanted to spare the googling to someone

i wonder if your comment saved energy or used up more energy than no comment at all. I guess we'd need to know how many people don't know and want to know what TIL means.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#123
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't watched this video in a while so apologies if it's not specifically elaborated on, but I believe it's covered here: https://youtu.be/_rBO8neWw04 From memory yes, it's partially about water usage, but dishwashers are in general just pretty good overall about efficiently using energy to maximize "food grime removed" per unit of resources fed in. Even if you're careful with water usage while hand washing, I th…

Thanks. I read the treehugger link—pretty convincing overall. Not sure why my question was downvoted tho. (Not accusing you)

I didn't downvote -- it's fair to be skeptical that a machine that spends hours making loud whirring noises would be more efficient than just scrubbing some dishes in the sink. And I don't want to careful about making unequivocal statements like "dishwashers are always more efficient", I've just heard some convincing reasons why dishwashers in particular are pretty cool and (unintuitively) efficient.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#124
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's frequently much more energy intensive too. Cars are a lot more efficient than horses and dishwashers are more efficient than hand washing.

Can you explain how dish washers are more efficient than hand washing? Is it about water use? What if you don’t run the water while you soap your dishes and only rinse them in a rinse tub?

If you're careful about water usage and use cold water, you'll always beat a dishwasher. Another thing people often forget about dishwashers: you're supposed to pre-scrub the hard shit off the dishes. Well, you just did half the mechanical work yourself, why not finish it?

I think part of it can also be (at least for me) upbringing. We always handwashed our dishes, and only used the dishwasher a couple times per year for big events.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low Tech Magazine always writes like this. They always offer some idea which seems interesting on its surface but leaves gaps. They then end the article explaining away the gap with a moral polemic about how we need to change our ways and return to an older way of life. These days I just take the magazine for what it is; a medium containing interesting ideas but overall disingenuous and often impractical. (Though I d…

Not always using a clothes dryer is fine and good advice. But not using an electric kettle and replacing it with heating water on a gas stove is so beyond absurd I'm shocked how they even came to this conclusion since gas stoves are less efficient and much worse for the environment than a kettle. And a kettle is so low impact anyway. It uses a high amount of power for a very short time and spends almost all of its li…

> since gas stoves are less efficient and much worse for the environment than a kettle.

It is not obvious at all and requires calculations.

When you use electric kettle you use energy which was obtained mostly from coal and gas (60% of it in the US) and efficiency of the conversion is less than about 40% on average (limited by efficiency of a steam turbine). Then about 8% of this power is lost during transportation/distribution.

When gas is burned in a gas stove 100% of its energy converted to heat. The only problem - some fraction of this energy heats a room instead of a kettle. But it is not bad if you had to heat room anyway (where I live 8-10 months out of 12 I'd prefer indoor temperature to be higher then it is).

I expect this loss to be smaller than 50%, but I've not found credible numbers for this.

Efficiency for an oven may be low because it measurably heats a kitchen, but ovens is another story.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#126
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rocket stove reminds me. I've seen lots of stuff on low tech 'improved' cook stoves for people in developing countries. I think women in those countries would be happier served with a pressure cooker and a two burner induction stove running off solar panels. All horrible high tech, but actually cheap commodities in practice.

An induction hob with a single ring/burner takes anywhere from 1.3-1.8 kWh of energy. It's almost impossible for the type of person that would benefit from a rocket stove to have access to a solar setup which could generate that much energy. Moreover, most of the time these families/individuals are impoverished enough and/or live in places with bad enough infrastructure that even gas for a gas stove isn't available.…

Run the numbers. 400-500W of solar provides enough energy per day. Two 150ah batteries can handle the peak load.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always using a clothes dryer is fine and good advice. But not using an electric kettle and replacing it with heating water on a gas stove is so beyond absurd I'm shocked how they even came to this conclusion since gas stoves are less efficient and much worse for the environment than a kettle. And a kettle is so low impact anyway. It uses a high amount of power for a very short time and spends almost all of its li…

> since gas stoves are less efficient and much worse for the environment than a kettle. It is not obvious at all and requires calculations. When you use electric kettle you use energy which was obtained mostly from coal and gas (60% of it in the US) and efficiency of the conversion is less than about 40% on average (limited by efficiency of a steam turbine). Then about 8% of this power is lost during transportation/d…

It should be possible to just heat the 1l of water in a kettle and in a pot using gas, and compare the electricity and gas consumed.

Time-wise I'd think it's quite comparable, in my experience.

This of course depends on sizes and quality of kettle/pot. Wide pot, with large surface area and a quality heatspreader on the bottom will get the water boiling more quickly. Also covering a pot is a must.

Sometimes when I'm in a hurry I split the water between a pot and el. kettle, to get a boiling 2l of water faster, and there's no huge difference in time to boil.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#128
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since gas stoves are less efficient and much worse for the environment than a kettle. It is not obvious at all and requires calculations. When you use electric kettle you use energy which was obtained mostly from coal and gas (60% of it in the US) and efficiency of the conversion is less than about 40% on average (limited by efficiency of a steam turbine). Then about 8% of this power is lost during transportation/d…

It should be possible to just heat the 1l of water in a kettle and in a pot using gas, and compare the electricity and gas consumed. Time-wise I'd think it's quite comparable, in my experience. This of course depends on sizes and quality of kettle/pot. Wide pot, with large surface area and a quality heatspreader on the bottom will get the water boiling more quickly. Also covering a pot is a must. Sometimes when I'm i…

Have you tried induction stove? It loses almost no heat to outside of pot and that makes palpable difference.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#129
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how dish washers are more efficient than hand washing? Is it about water use? What if you don’t run the water while you soap your dishes and only rinse them in a rinse tub?

I haven't watched this video in a while so apologies if it's not specifically elaborated on, but I believe it's covered here: https://youtu.be/_rBO8neWw04 From memory yes, it's partially about water usage, but dishwashers are in general just pretty good overall about efficiently using energy to maximize "food grime removed" per unit of resources fed in. Even if you're careful with water usage while hand washing, I th…

And it's disgusting and water where I live is cheap and plentiful. Hate water austerity imposed on everyone because of megacities and people living where people shouldn't live.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#130

I read the whole article with sympathetic interest, until the conclusion: > One way to solve the problem of high power devices is simply not to use them -- this is the approach that's followed in sailboats, motorhomes and caravans > Obviously, this strategy implies a change in our way of life. It would mean that electricity is used only for lighting, electronics and refrigeration, while non-electric alternatives are…

I get unreasonably angry when Victorian cosplayers think they've found the solution to our wasteful modern life. Simply eschew modern conveniences and spend hours each week beating your clothes against a rock! Simple , instead of grocery shopping twice a month, ditch that wasteful freezer and walk to the farmers' market down the block before dinner each night. Was it cloudy yesterday? Simple! , take a whore-bath¹ at…

> [¹] Or, "PTA", which isn't much nicer. Any ideas on what to call this that's less vulgar, but still derisive?

Sponge bath?

> 1. A quick sponge bath by hand, using a wet washcloth or a pre-moistened towelette, to extend the interval between showers or clean up after casual sexual intercourse.

* https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whore_bath

* https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sponge_bath

Post reply on HN