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American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

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Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#121

Post by skzv »

When I started high school in Canada, my math grades were pretty bad. Probably in the 60%s (a C letter grade). I remember staring at a quadratic equation, struggling to understand why those 3 terms drew a curve. I had no intuition for it.

The summer before 11th grade, my father decided he had enough. It was time to learn math, Soviet style. He sat me down for a few hours each morning with problems from 6th and 7th grade Russian math textbooks - which was strange to me of course because I was about to start 11th grade. One important rule was that a calculator was not allowed.

Everyday he had a list of questions ready for me that he had judiciously picked. Back in Ukraine he was a regional physics Olympiad winner, and a gold medal winner (in the Soviet Union, the top graduates from each high school were awarded a gold medal - goes to show how they valued academics I suppose). I can pull up some photos if anyone is interested.

The questions were very clever and pedagogical. You developed intuition by solving them. And you couldn't solve them if you didn't understand the underlying principles. And of course, there's the word problems. I could barely read Russian at the time, so I had to take my time, but they bridge the gap between theory and application. And without a calculator, you are forced to develop techniques for manipulating equations and numbers. You get really good at it.

I aced math and physics for the rest of high school (and later graduated with a degree in Engineering Physics).

The western education system really fails us. My dad sitting me down with those elementary Russian math textbooks and enforcing a no calculator rule was one of the best things he could have ever done for me. The Soviet mathematic curriculum was designed by some brilliant mathematicians who understood the importance of developing intuition. That importance seems to be lost here. People think that quantitative intuition doesn't matter as long as you can plug your equation into Wolfram Alpha. But when you approach math that way, you don't develop an analytical and quantitative lens.

Photos: [My father and my grandmother on the way to university in the 80s - https://photos.app.goo.gl/Tgv2gpy428rKs2GS8

Gold medal - https://photos.app.goo.gl/KsisSEvb4fbNEE419

Physics Olympiad diploma with translation - ]https://photos.app.goo.gl/b3hw6HXmQN25iXay9]

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#122

Post by ymolodtsov »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #92
farmerstan wrote: post #47

This is the video by the daughter of the founder of the Russian School of Math. We sent our son there over the summer, he enjoyed it and all the kids were pretty advanced in the class. California seems to want to hold everyone back in the name of equity. But that will force more people into the private school system, which is exactly what we did. I don’t trust the California government to have my children’s best inte…

Oregon governor Kate Brown has signed a law that allows students to graduate without proving they can read, write or do math. The law had overwhelming Democrat support & is justified on the basis that it will benefit non-white students. https://thepostmillennial.com/oregon-governor-signs-new-law-...

Not sure how exactly the lack of these skills could benefit anyone.

I understand that the lack of a school diploma is a huge drag in life and that can primarily affect people from disadvantaged backgrounds, but shouldn't they focus on improving the way they teach kids instead?

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#123

Post by carlmr »

I had the same experience going from a French elementary school to a German school.

What we were taught in second grade only popped up again in 6th grade in Germany.

Then I went on exchange to the US in 10th grade and I noticed they were lagging behind the German system by about 2 years.

So US vs France must be a 6 year lag.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#124

Post by [deleted] »

inter_netuser wrote: post #89
leto_ii wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience in my home country of Romania was similar to yours, however my conclusions couldn't be more different. > American schools are too soft on science in general. [...]The Albanian school was brutal in teaching science How on earth is brutality in teaching a good idea? What was the effect of this approach on the average Albanian or Romanian student? Sure it worked fine for a few of us, but overall the result…

PISA ranking? China and Singapore are at the very top. If you think what's described is brutality, you should watch tiger moms push their children. I've also went through what could be considered a "brutal" system, very similar to whats described, although i wouldn't use that specific term. We had ~40 problem sets to solve every evening for homework, hours of work. I don't think anyone ever got an A+ in anything. If…

[deleted]

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#125

Post by ymolodtsov »

meshr wrote: post #41

It is not Russian but 'Soviets math'. Ironically, Russia introduced analogy of USA's standardized right after Itina emigrated from Russia and now Russian's math is also optimized for memorizing but not for 'emphasizing reasoning and deeper understanding'

That's a common criticism that mostly relies on emotions and not facts.

These standardized tests are changed little by little every year and are simply meant to a) ensure similar educational standards for smaller and remote cities b) enable kids to apply to any university in Russia.

Although some specific parents and teachers in particular school might want to focus on repetition of the same problems and tasks it doesn't mean everyone will and it certainly didn't affect me that much. In fact, having some definitive rules on how they assess an essay in Russian helped me get 100% for it the first time, since it was objective.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#126

Post by [deleted] »

skzv wrote: post #121

When I started high school in Canada, my math grades were pretty bad. Probably in the 60%s (a C letter grade). I remember staring at a quadratic equation, struggling to understand why those 3 terms drew a curve. I had no intuition for it. The summer before 11th grade, my father decided he had enough. It was time to learn math, Soviet style. He sat me down for a few hours each morning with problems from 6th and 7th gr…

[deleted]

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#128

Post by lordnacho »

leto_ii wrote: post #44
ardit33 wrote: post #7

My sister sent my niece to one, as even her 'private' middle school in Newton, MA, was just not strong enough. She did sign up my niece in every summer class she could, without overloading her. It was always my nieces' choice, and half the time she choose arts and half science. Now, my niece is able to do college entry level data science classes (she is about to become a Junior in HighSchool), and she actually likes…

My experience in my home country of Romania was similar to yours, however my conclusions couldn't be more different. > American schools are too soft on science in general. [...]The Albanian school was brutal in teaching science How on earth is brutality in teaching a good idea? What was the effect of this approach on the average Albanian or Romanian student? Sure it worked fine for a few of us, but overall the result…

> Have you ever wondered how it's possible that the same "stupid" Americans that don't learn integrals and group theory in highschool somehow manage just fine in university and later on in life?

They do just fine because they aren't selected to do jobs where they need those kinds of skills, because they tend not to have them.

If they were taught the stuff at least they would have the choice.

I'm not in favour of brutalizing the kids though, I think that ruins the experience for them. But a lot of kids are more capable than we think and ought to be shown advanced subjects.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#129

Post by petargyurov »

lordnacho wrote: post #115
petargyurov wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Bulgarian. I moved to the UK when I was 12. I had to join primary school halfway through Year 6 (the last year of primary school). The level of mathematics shocked me. They were still learning factorisation, something I had learned years ago. It was a breeze. Of course, in secondary school (ages 12-18) the content eventually caught up with me. Part of me wishes I could have somehow kept studying the Bulgarian wa…

> In the UK it's 07:00 to 15:00 All the schools I know of here in the London area start around 0830 to 0900. Some operate a club for busy parents to drop off their kids early but classes don't start until the rest of the kids show up.

I couldn't actually remember what time we started in the UK (it was either 7 or 8) so I gave it the benefit of the doubt. It was probably closer to 8.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#130

Post by ymolodtsov »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #38
arthur_sav wrote: post #32

Somehow the American education system keeps getting worse while they poor more money into it.

There’s a limited amount you can do when everyone around you is destitute. I seriously doubt future coal miners were taught sophisticated math in high school in the USSR - they took tracking and specialization to an extreme, whereas this is culturally verboten in America (for good reason).

Soviet schools weren't really specialized. They could have some classes with a heavier focus on specific subjects but all changes were minor.

So yes, coal miners learned the same stuff. Only after grade 9 kids could apply to a professional school that would teach blue-collar professions and that's the first divergence point.

P.S. In Soviet/Russian schools "class" is literally a group of kids who study all subjects together from grade 1 to 11, they are very rigid.

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