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A street snack that has baffled botanists

atlasobscura.com

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Re: A street snack that has baffled botanists

#121

meta: how can atlasobscura.com operate legally in Europe when the only cookie option is 'confirm'?

In the same way popups saying "by continuing to view this site you consent to cookies" do? The user is informed and the cookie is(/should be) only set once they click a link / button / scroll past the initial view, which means they have taken an 'informed' action regarding cookies.

That conforms to the earlier EU cookie directive, but not to the GDPR. Under the GDPR, consent much be freely and explicitly given, and must be as easy to revoke as it is to give. Clicking a link or scrolling down is not explicit. Since use of the site is conditional on accepting the tracking, the consent isn't freely given. Since there is no button to reject the cookies, it is harder to reject the tracking than it is to accept.

Failing all three conditions for acquiring consent, my conclusion is that the site is blatantly violating the GDPR.

Re: A street snack that has baffled botanists

#122
post #39

This looks like a giant variety of 'Pachyrhizus erosus' or Jicama, which is also a street snack widely sold in Mexico. I'v never seen ones as large as the one in the article, but the watery texture and how it's condimented (lemon, sugar, salt, chili powder) is exactly like Jicama. Seems wikipedia has a reference to ones as large as 2 meters and 20 kg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachyrhizus_erosus so it may be like…

It’s so cool how even when teams of scientists have failed there is a random commenter on HN with the answer.

Re: A street snack that has baffled botanists

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is literally a Doubt section there, the page isn't well-cited on the food bit.

What do you make of this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlwOrdciEX8 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7sn42heQ2w Have you ever been to the Champavat region of Uttarakhand?

The first video shows the leaves of some kind of shrub, with no evidence to link it to the thick, fleshy stem to that plant.

The second video shows a food market selling the snack and displaying a web page printout about Maerua oblongifolia. Also not evidence.

Clearly you did not read the article. The food vendors claim it is Maerua oblongifolia. The whole point is that it cannot possibly be, as Maerua does not have fleshy, edible roots or trunks, and DNA testing points to a different botanical family.

Wikipedia is not a credible source here.

Re: A street snack that has baffled botanists

#124
post #75
post #31

The whole business sounds very shady. It's likely that the plant is sourced from the side of roads, untended fields, forests, construction companies (selling anything they find for coffee money), etc. It's a completely black area, outside of food regulations, so they can't expose the actual source, no matter what. This can also explain the confusing reports from multiple researchers, because academic "species" don't…

There is no food 'regulation' for the snacks sold in open cart. There are innumerable varieties of such snack which are not 'mysterious'. This seems to be 'mysterious' because of the writing skill of the author. She successfully managed to create a buzz. If finding the answer was the goal it could have been easily found out by offering 10X-50X (approx $150-$700 = Annual income perhaps) the money they offered mentione…

The author isn’t looking to setup a roadside snack business. Throwing money at a “problem” is not a real solution.

I think the people in the article have made a good-faith attempt to research and find out more about the snack.

Re: A street snack that has baffled botanists

#125
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article they say the specific Agave that they linked to using DNA analysis.

Species doesn't mean as much in the plant world. Cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, kale, Brussels sprouts, collard greens, kohlrabi, and gai lan are all Brassica oleracea . You can have specimens that are even technically the same cultivar but wildly different alimentary character.

Hooray!! I totally love the way 'Brassica' vegetables provide such a vivid illustration of the amazing variety that some selection-pressure can yield on the development of essentially a single type of input organism. Makes you wonder what might happen when these types of selection-pressures start affecting humankind more!

Re: A street snack that has baffled botanists

#126

I read this article elsewhere. I don't quite get why it says no one know's, then it's genetically and visually matched to a type of agave, and then they go back to not knowing? It seems some of the counter argument is assuming that "Agave" are all the same when specific types will have specific traits. Otherwise it's an interesting read.

Hi. I am the author of this article :) To sum up, most research as of now points to Agave but botanists who did the DNA barcoding don't want to commit to Agave. For two reasons: 1) It is 89% close to Agave, the Sisalana variety but 11% is open to doubts and research. 2)The Agave expert, who tried to make a beverage out of it and has worked on it for years, says it's can't be agave. He has eaten both the snack, as wel…

Have you looked into any processing steps between harvest and serving? I am curious if they are soaking/fermenting/acidifying it in some way which would account for the differences described from straight agave.

Re: A street snack that has baffled botanists

#127

meta: how can atlasobscura.com operate legally in Europe when the only cookie option is 'confirm'?

Who says it is operating in Europe? Just because you can reach it with a browser from Europe does not mean it has a business nexus in the EU.

Yes I know the EU claims that GDPR covers the entire world, but the practical reality is that they do not have overseas strike forces going after small web publishers for cookie banners.

Re: A street snack that has baffled botanists

#128
post #122
post #39

This looks like a giant variety of 'Pachyrhizus erosus' or Jicama, which is also a street snack widely sold in Mexico. I'v never seen ones as large as the one in the article, but the watery texture and how it's condimented (lemon, sugar, salt, chili powder) is exactly like Jicama. Seems wikipedia has a reference to ones as large as 2 meters and 20 kg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachyrhizus_erosus so it may be like…

It’s so cool how even when teams of scientists have failed there is a random commenter on HN with the answer.

With a guess.

Re: A street snack that has baffled botanists

#129
Some Unflappable Agave Wisdom from Joey Santore , aka "Crime Pays but Botany Doesn't":

#41: Massive Flowers of Agave Shawii Ssp Goldmania

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueWGGnYlRCU&ab_channel=Crime...

>So anyway, here's that same habitat where I was filming scorpions last night, and here it is during the day time. [...]

>Let's take a look over here. This massive Agave. Which is basically just, uh, I don't know, 20 or 30 years worth of a plant manufacturing sugars. So that's about 30 years worth of sunlight put into a sugar form, which stays in the heart of that plant. They're, remember, most Agaves are monocarpic, so they flower once and then die, and it's because they take that massive amount of sugar, and put everything they got into these flowers up there, which produce tremendous amount of nectar, which are then pollinated by bees and bats. You can see the stamens up there.

>See the stamens have those anthers on 'em, those little banana shaped rads, with all the pollen. And then of course there's, for every flower, there's one central stigma, which is like the female part, it receives the pollen, so you have like six stamens and one stigma. And then when they're done, each one of those flowers turns into a tree lobed pod, which then has little tiny black flakey seeds in it. Each plant producing hundreds upon hundreds of seeds, only a few of which of course will form new plants.

>You can see there's quite a few others doin' their thing and bloomin' right now. You can also imagine fallin' on that will quite possibly kill you. This one, like I said, Agaves are monocarpic, but uh, they do send out, I don't know what the word of them would be, I just call 'em pups. But basically, just, ya know, little Mini-Me's that they send out on the sides, so that when the main plant flowers, the show is still not that completely over.

>See now this whole inflorescence is just alive with pollinators. It's buzzing. Imagine the amount of energy and carbohydrates needed to create a huge massive flowering stock like that. It's got to weight 150 pounds, easily. It's a 150 pound flower. Same with this one. And you can see it's already starting to shrivel 'cause its energy reserves start to diminish. If you just saw off all these leaves, you'd just have a massive, probably three or four hundred pound heart, composed almost entirely of carbohydrates.

#51: Annotated, Profanity-Laced Checklist of Desert Ultramafics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhWLtKy8kYY&ab_channel=Crime...

>Now a quick introduction to what's called analtramafic, ultramafic soils, are almost always associated with subduction zones. They're also known as serpentine soils. And, uh, they're often very barren of plant life, being to the fact that they're toxic to most plants. That is, they have minerals like nickel, magnesium, and and excess amounts of iron, while also lacking essential plant nutrients such as calcium and nitrogen. So many plants have a hard time growin' in them, but many other plants have adapted to them. That's not to say that they necessarily thrive in them, but they're able to tolerate the soil chemistry. [...]

>But look at this nice Agave Vizcainoensis. Another endemic to the region. Look at that thick cuticle it's got in it. You can almost see it. Look at those pores. Look at that nice thick cuticle. Oh, what a beautiful plant. I love this guy.

#74: Sassy Bastards of the Last Chance Range b/w Agave Utahensis Var Eborispina

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5yViQeLpPM&ab_channel=Crime...

>Now here is somethin' that's real nice. I think you probably will like it a lot. This is a species of Agave known only from the limestone soils in Southwestern Nevada, and a little bit into Eastern California, right here on the Nevada border. This is Agave Utahensis variety Eborispinus. And here's one about two weeks shy of flowering. You can see that flower spike just came up. Now that flower, of course, will open, it will get pollenated by a variety of different bees, and perhaps some bats as well, and then it will die. But you can see it's already got another offset comin' up that will survive, and then will probably flower a couple years later down the line.

>Now the reason this is called variety Eborispina is pretty obvious when you get up close and you look at these rosetta leaf blades, which, uh, I mean, is kinda just sayin' "Leave Me Alone!" You can see the tips of these leaf blades are about six inches long, probably, seven inches in some case. A very sharp, very hard, very easy to dissuade any potential herbivores or jack asses like myself from puttin' my hand right there at the base of this large flowering shoot, the peduncle. Now look at those spines. And again, this only grows on calcium carbonate soils, on the limestone. There's three different species in this genus: Nevadensis, Utahensis, and Eborispina. There might be one more. Utahensis is the name of the species. Might not be the name of the subspecies. It's either subspecies or variety. I don't know. Don't matter. Either way: What a fuck'n remarkable plant! [...]

>These things are nice too. These peduncles, these big peduncles, 'cause you can, uh, when it's done, they're woody, you can cut them off, and, uh, beat your friends with them, etcetera.

#154: Cat-calling Milkweds, Tracking Hippies, & Consoling Grandpas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KefiIdZR7Ck&ab_channel=Crime...

>Obsolete Racist Grandpa Trigger Warning

>Kinda glandular, too. A little bit, uh, little bit frilly, ehe? Look at those big-ass brachs. On the back of the flowers, too, huh? Like on this guy, you know? It's so nice. Doesn't that make you feel good? Doesn't that make you feel better? Maybe all those crazy white boys that are going shootin' up malls and shit, you know? Too bad they didn't know about botany, you know? Could have just calmed them right down, you know. Maybe they just should have just studied plant science a little better, some shit. You know? 'Cause it really, it's like the tissue paper that wipes the ass. You know, it gets rid of all the shit stain of modern society and civilization, huh? 'Cause you know, it's not a pretty world out there, folks, at least if you're looking at the human world. Kinda makes me wanna die. But then you just got look at that, uh, something like that monotropa, you feel a little bit better, huh? So you got much more music forest over here, and then here you got a royal like halis slope, then you got a, what seems to be an Agave Parryi. Certainly one of the Agaves. It is producing pups. So that when a, you know, the mother plant dies, you know, it's monocarpic so they die after flowering, it just sends out other pups.

https://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/august-2019/joey-santor...

>Meet the “Misanthropic Chicago Italian” Who Charmed Twitter. The self-taught botanist sounds off on going viral, preserving the natural world, and the story behind that accent.

Re: A street snack that has baffled botanists

#130
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel that way when you walk into a Subway? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/22/subway-sandw...

De-AMP-ed link (mine was redirecting to the favicon): https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/22/subway-sandw... I wonder whether it's canned, and whether sterilizing it can make the DNA unreadable (broken down).

Wonder no more. The answer is that the NYT is likely overstating the power of the testing they did.

https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/foodservice-retail/subway...

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