Earlier quoted context omitted.
The states really screwed this up when certain ones decided their love for cotton and hatred for brown people was more important than their sovereignty.
The federal government had no problem with slavery. It was clearly enshrined in the Constitution.
A bad grade that changed the U.S. constitution (2017)
121–130 of 198 posts
Re: A bad grade that changed the U.S. constitution (2017)
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
Alright, what are the optimal ratios?
The optimal power ratio is one person equals one unit of power. The problem is any change to the Constitution would require 2/3 of the states to agree. Many of those states require supermajorities to pass an amendment. Generally any change that's big enough to go into the Constitution is big enough that a few people will oppose it. A few people is all it takes. We can't even pass an "equal rights for women" amendment…
It also makes for some weird power dynamics due to extreme imbalance in state sizes. Specifically, we're at the point where the top 1/4 (i.e 12) most populated states together contain 60% of the population, and the remaining 3/4 contain the other 40%. Thus, if small states gang up, they can arbitrarily amend the constitution while representing a minority of the overall population - "tyranny of the minority", if you like. And then consider the fact that it's state legislatures ratifying amendments by a simple majority vote, not residents - which means that, in practice, the 3/4 of the legislatures voting to ratify might actually be representing something like 20% of the population. Then account for gerrymandering etc on state level, and it can be even smaller.
FWIW, the Founders themselves were well aware of problems that can stem from an arrangement like that. When Hamilton was explaining why the principles underlying the Articles of Confederation couldn't be sustained long term in Federalist Papers (#22), one of his arguments went thus:
"It may be objected to this, that not seven but nine States, or two thirds of the whole number, must consent to the most important resolutions; and it may be thence inferred that nine States would always comprehend a majority of the Union. But this does not obviate the impropriety of an equal vote between States of the most unequal dimensions and populousness; nor is the inference accurate in point of fact; for we can enumerate nine States which contain less than a majority of the people; and it is constitutionally possible that these nine may give the vote."
And further noting that even the power to veto can be very detrimental if abused:
"To give a minority a negative upon the majority (which is always the case where more than a majority is requisite to a decision), is, in its tendency, to subject the sense of the greater number to that of the lesser. Congress, from the nonattendance of a few States, have been frequently in the situation of a Polish diet, where a single VOTE has been sufficient to put a stop to all their movements. A sixtieth part of the Union, which is about the proportion of Delaware and Rhode Island, has several times been able to oppose an entire bar to its operations. This is one of those refinements which, in practice, has an effect the reverse of what is expected from it in theory. The necessity of unanimity in public bodies, or of something approaching towards it, has been founded upon a supposition that it would contribute to security. But its real operation is to embarrass the administration, to destroy the energy of the government, and to substitute the pleasure, caprice, or artifices of an insignificant, turbulent, or corrupt junto, to the regular deliberations and decisions of a respectable majority. In those emergencies of a nation, in which the goodness or badness, the weakness or strength of its government, is of the greatest importance, there is commonly a necessity for action. The public business must, in some way or other, go forward. If a pertinacious minority can control the opinion of a majority, respecting the best mode of conducting it, the majority, in order that something may be done, must conform to the views of the minority; and thus the sense of the smaller number will overrule that of the greater, and give a tone to the national proceedings. Hence, tedious delays; continual negotiation and intrigue; contemptible compromises of the public good. And yet, in such a system, it is even happy when such compromises can take place: for upon some occasions things will not admit of accommodation; and then the measures of government must be injuriously suspended, or fatally defeated. It is often, by the impracticability of obtaining the concurrence of the necessary number of votes, kept in a state of inaction. Its situation must always savor of weakness, sometimes border upon anarchy."
"It is not difficult to discover, that a principle of this kind gives greater scope to foreign corruption, as well as to domestic faction, than that which permits the sense of the majority to decide; though the contrary of this has been presumed. The mistake has proceeded from not attending with due care to the mischiefs that may be occasioned by obstructing the progress of government at certain critical seasons. When the concurrence of a large number is required by the Constitution to the doing of any national act, we are apt to rest satisfied that all is safe, because nothing improper will be likely TO BE DONE, but we forget how much good may be prevented, and how much ill may be produced, by the power of hindering the doing what may be necessary, and of keeping affairs in the same unfavorable posture in which they may happen to stand at particular periods."
Reminds you of anything?..
Re: A bad grade that changed the U.S. constitution (2017)
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Letting the states make their own decisions on issues not addressed by the constitution is a perfectly viable solution. Not sure why that would be particularly difficult.
It’s too easy for citizens to move between states. You no longer need to cross the Atlantic in a Conestoga wagon. This freedom of movement punishes states that attempt to increase their quality of life too far above the national average far more than it punishes low-quality states with brain drain.
Re: A bad grade that changed the U.S. constitution (2017)
#124There have been only two amendments to the U.S. Constitution over the past 50+ years (one of which is the subject of this story). Why? Partly because the Supreme Court has been very willing to discover hidden rights within the existing amendments, decreasing the need for states to go through the very arduous process of getting a new amendment over the finish line. That might seem like a fine way to handle things ...…
On some level I'm sympathetic to the argument of the textualists (vs the "living document" philosophy. As you say there's a process for amending the Constitution. But there are a number of problems with this idea. The first problem is those who are all about states rights tend to be selective in applying that standard. Congress passed the Fugitive Slave Act in 1850 that required free states to return slaves to return…
Re: A bad grade that changed the U.S. constitution (2017)
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Alright, what are the optimal ratios?
The optimal power ratio is one person equals one unit of power. The problem is any change to the Constitution would require 2/3 of the states to agree. Many of those states require supermajorities to pass an amendment. Generally any change that's big enough to go into the Constitution is big enough that a few people will oppose it. A few people is all it takes. We can't even pass an "equal rights for women" amendment…
Why do you think an amendment would help any supposed problem with that? Equal rights for women are already mandated.
Re: A bad grade that changed the U.S. constitution (2017)
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
If interpreted strictly, the constitution is really not suitable for operating a modern government (e.g. if you interpret the list of powers given to the federal government narrowly) so the supreme court essentially has no choice but to make stuff up. Obviously once they start doing that there's no real way to control what they are able to modify, but the only real way to fix it would be to completely scrap the curre…
> If interpreted strictly, the constitution is really not suitable for operating a modern government (e.g. if you interpret the list of powers given to the federal government narrowly) so the supreme court essentially has no choice but to make stuff up. One, that’s not quite true. Sometimes the Constitution uses broad language. For example, the Commerce Clause is worded expansively. It’s probably been pushed a bit be…
Re: A bad grade that changed the U.S. constitution (2017)
#127There have been only two amendments to the U.S. Constitution over the past 50+ years (one of which is the subject of this story). Why? Partly because the Supreme Court has been very willing to discover hidden rights within the existing amendments, decreasing the need for states to go through the very arduous process of getting a new amendment over the finish line. That might seem like a fine way to handle things ...…
This is an age old debate between judicial activism and judicial originalism. Most issues seem to stem from interpretation of the text. Activist wing thinks it needs to be interpreted within the current framework of judicial, social and political viewpoints while originalism wants it to be interpreted in the way it was originally written. It's hard to say one way or another. Activits would claim Brown vs Board create…
Re: A bad grade that changed the U.S. constitution (2017)
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if you're not a judicial activist, originalism for a 250 year old constitution is practically speaking, insane and unrealistic. The industrial revolution hadn't even happened yet! We have no way of knowing what the founders would have thought about modern problems. This is not even considering that a lot of their known ideas were absolutely terrible.
Originalism doesn't mean do not evolve. It means evolution of society must be reflected in law through the laws passed by legislature that is elected by citizenry and not by judges. It is a valid frame of view just like activism.
Re: A bad grade that changed the U.S. constitution (2017)
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is an age old debate between judicial activism and judicial originalism. Most issues seem to stem from interpretation of the text. Activist wing thinks it needs to be interpreted within the current framework of judicial, social and political viewpoints while originalism wants it to be interpreted in the way it was originally written. It's hard to say one way or another. Activits would claim Brown vs Board create…
Even if you're not a judicial activist, originalism for a 250 year old constitution is practically speaking, insane and unrealistic. The industrial revolution hadn't even happened yet! We have no way of knowing what the founders would have thought about modern problems. This is not even considering that a lot of their known ideas were absolutely terrible.
Re: A bad grade that changed the U.S. constitution (2017)
#130Catch-22: After he got the amendment ratified, there's a strong argument that the paper probably should have been given a higher grade. But had he been given that higher grade in the first place, he probably wouldn't have gone through the effort to ratify the amendment. You could argue that the paper did deserve the initial C grade, because that's what it took to get him angry enough to go and get the amendment ratif…