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Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

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Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#121

Post by ev1 »

0x500x79 wrote: post #13

This seems to largely match a lot of the same things that happened with Riot Games over the last couple of years. I am hoping that these actions can help spread awareness of any issues that may be present at Blizzard and past, current, and future employees won't face the same issues. It is a long road to be traveled to get there. I hope that the current WFH situation doesn't detract from the walkout. A lot of the vis…

> I do find it interesting that the DFEH has lawsuits against both Riot Games and Blizzard for similar issues

Yes, because Riot's C-level executive was literally dry humping interns and shoving their ass into faces and still has their job? Clearly "visibility" has not worked past creating PR articles.

Does DFEH have the same problem with any other major game studio there that isn't embroiled in this type of behaviour?

I've played League before. The player base is ludicrously, absurdly toxic, and if they are hiring anything from there, then, well...

Sexism:

[2018] https://kotaku.com/inside-the-culture-of-sexism-at-riot-game...

[2018] https://twitter.com/MiniWhiteRabbit/status/10269232332814213...

[2019] https://www.vice.com/en/article/evyz7p/over-100-riot-games-e...

COO specific:

https://www.businessinsider.com/riot-games-suspends-coo-scot...

- tbh just google riot games farting

CEO specific:

[Feb 2021] https://www.wired.com/story/riot-games-ceo-culture-complaint...

[Mar 2021] https://www.dailyesports.gg/alienware-has-terminated-its-spo...

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#123

Post by johncessna »

madamelic wrote: post #21
0x500x79 wrote: post #13

This seems to largely match a lot of the same things that happened with Riot Games over the last couple of years. I am hoping that these actions can help spread awareness of any issues that may be present at Blizzard and past, current, and future employees won't face the same issues. It is a long road to be traveled to get there. I hope that the current WFH situation doesn't detract from the walkout. A lot of the vis…

> is the DFEH out of line, or is the industry just that broken? No chance DEFH is out of line. The tech industry is strongly biased in the favor of white men in my opinion and video games even more so, considering women playing video games only became socially acceptable a few years ago. It's still common for men to talk down to women on video games, to the point where the overwhelming majority of women do not use vo…

> Think about all those men complaining that a video game _dared_ have a female character or even more so, a non-conventionally attractive one gasp. That was in 2018... That's the _average_ person who is making a video game.

Mrs PacMan? Samus? Peach? That was all before 1988

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#124

Post by mftb »

Daishiman wrote: post #68
908B64B197 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tech industry is strongly biased in the favor of white men That's debatable. CS was overwhelmingly male and wasn't prestigious until recently. > video games even more so I wonder how much of that we can attribute to DOOM. The DOOM devs wanted to make an hyper-violent game centered around Demon and heavy metal, and that reflected in the culture at id (not the violence). And they made a bunch of money which spurr…

> That's debatable. CS was overwhelmingly male and wasn't prestigious until recently. We're talking about the same career that's been known as a money-printing machine for the past 25 years?

You certainly can have a career that's lucrative, but not prestigious. I've been coding for over 25 years and in that time, have been referred to as a "nerd", "geek", etc... pretty much the entire time. Not prestigious monikers. Most people that I encounter do not act as though my career is a "money-printing machine", but rather that I do some, strange, arcane, thing that they could never approach (or would want to), that is very difficult, but yes, finally, makes money. They see my title as prestigious, but not programming. The people I see with different attitudes about programming/prestige/gender are much younger (<30). I don't fully understand their attitudes yet.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#125

Post by easterncalculus »

j_walter wrote: post #18

> The suit was followed by an outpouring of current and former employees saying they’d been harassed or mistreated at the company. I never understand why in the world we currently live in there are so many people willing to be silent for so long. Weinstein did his crap for years, the US gymnastics assaults went on for years. This probably isn't a popular opinion...but when victims choose to remain silent they are com…

Nassar is not a good example to compare to - I can't speak to the Weinstein case as I haven't followed it well, but with Larry Nassar athletes were bringing up his actions and their discomfort pretty regularly. One athlete was kicked off the team, if I remember correctly.

The FBI was also extremely negligent - the special agent working the case was inquiring about job opportunities at the place he was investigating.

As for victims "choosing" to remain silent, you have to understand two things:

1. The victims are most often children, and often do not understand that his actions were not okay, especially when the team says they are, and calls them hysterical for feeling disgusted with him.

2. The older victims don't want to have their careers ended by speaking up to power.

Between the way the team and the FBI handled this it's really hard to argue that this is the victim's fault. The people they trusted let them down for decades. You can (and should) educate children about what is right and wrong, but you also need to be willing to investigate claims and ensure people feel comfortable to raise them.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#126

Post by mempko »

pmarreck wrote: post #56
yosito wrote: post #16

Does anyone have any more specific information aside from "widespread sexism"? It would be good to know exactly what is prompting this walkout, and exactly what changes they're hoping to achieve with it.

Honest question: Guys often "rib" each other, it's part of the culture among males. When you throw women into the mix and they get "ribbed" (perhaps for being "one of the guys," as it were) does this often become sexual harassment? Perhaps the culture of "ribbing" needs to go away for everyone, or at least from the workplace, but it has always been the case for me that a close friend or acquaintance typically only "r…

Would you have preferred no ribbing? I think most people, including men, would.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#127

Post by ehutch79 »

majormajor wrote: post #79
Daishiman wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's debatable. CS was overwhelmingly male and wasn't prestigious until recently. We're talking about the same career that's been known as a money-printing machine for the past 25 years?

> We're talking about the same career that's been known as a money-printing machine for the past 25 years? 20 years ago it was fairly frequently perceived as both very nerdy in an unpopular way and in imminent danger of being outsourced entirely. It's sad how many people who had to put up with bullying for their interests back then quickly became bullies themselves when they had the opportunity. Of all people, we sho…

20 years ago i had to show people in a cs course how to turn on their computer. they were only there because of the dotcom bubble.

Brogrammers were a thing back then, and were problematic even then.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#128

Post by reader_mode »

Alupis wrote: post #32
bagacrap wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't think Blizzard is going to be able to bring in scabs to replace software devs. This comment reveals how poorly the industry is understood by outsiders, or at least this one journo.

> Yeah I don't think Blizzard is going to be able to bring in scabs to replace software devs The game industry is overflowing with college educated, computer science degree wielding, software developers eager to work on a big game project. Few will ever touch Engine code - the rest are easily replaceable. This is part of the reason companies like this are able to get away with things that other industries aren't able…

>The game industry is overflowing with college educated, computer science degree wielding, software developers eager to work on a big game project. Few will ever touch Engine code - the rest are easily replaceable.

I was under the impression that junior devs aren't that hard to come by in any development category (a specific type of junior will be more likely to join a AAA team for sure). I suspect senior staff is harder to get just like any other industry - but I have no insight into this industry.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#129

Post by CoolGuySteve »

bitwize wrote: post #95
bin_bash wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Think about all those men complaining that a video game _dared_ have a female character or even more so, a non-conventionally attractive one gasp. That was in 2018... That's the _average_ person who is making a video game. What game are you referring to?

Returnal, perhaps?

I haven't heard anything about Returnal but maybe it's because Samus Aran already dominates that genre.

In fact, the only time I ever hear complaints about Samus Aran is when they make her more submissive and less of a badass.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#130

Post by postalrat »

0x500x79 wrote: post #93
Alupis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah I don't think Blizzard is going to be able to bring in scabs to replace software devs The game industry is overflowing with college educated, computer science degree wielding, software developers eager to work on a big game project. Few will ever touch Engine code - the rest are easily replaceable. This is part of the reason companies like this are able to get away with things that other industries aren't able…

The video game company I worked at was a disaster of spaghetti code that was written by engine developers/jack-of-all-trade developers with no semblance of caring about maintainability. Every milestone was a new disaster of tech debt that was built upon the foundation of previous tech debt. It was difficult to hire new grades or less experienced developers because the cost to train them in the custom frameworks, infr…

If it's so had to train in new people it sounds like you already have a spaghetti code problem.

You might want to get an outsider to take a look at your custom frameworks, infrastructure, and other technologies to see what can be done to straighten that out.

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