Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#121

Post by spamizbad » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:18 AM UTC

intricatedetail wrote: post #108

cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

Exactly. The whole concept of residential property as an investment must go. I wonder if enough AirBnB in the area could actually drive property cost down, because nobody would like to live there long term and then essentially wiping off all the profits people made by renting out. In the end only the AirBnB would really profit. It's a business model clearly bases on a loophole and should be closed. If someone wants t…

> The whole concept of residential property as an investment must go.

One of the major "lessons" of the famous book Rich Dad, Poor Dad was that wise wealthy people view housing as an asset and investment, whereas poor and middle class people merely view it as an expense. This thinking is now deeply ingrained in our culture.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#122

Post by Tempest1981 » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:18 AM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #115

cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

> But AirBnB is clearly used to create illegal hotels and that's the problem. The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal. The incentives aren't difficult: Create an anonymous tip line to report illegal AirBnB operations that violate zoning regulations. Have submitters provide the street address and URL of the AirBnB to make it easy. The person operating the AirBnB (or owner of the house…

But who should pay for the increased enforcement?

> anonymous tip line

Run by Airbnb? Seems reasonable.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#123

Post by cletus » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:20 AM UTC

intricatedetail wrote: post #108

cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

Exactly. The whole concept of residential property as an investment must go. I wonder if enough AirBnB in the area could actually drive property cost down, because nobody would like to live there long term and then essentially wiping off all the profits people made by renting out. In the end only the AirBnB would really profit. It's a business model clearly bases on a loophole and should be closed. If someone wants t…

> The whole concept of residential property as an investment must go.

Well, not this exactly. I mean when you rent a property, you're renting it from someone else who owns it. That's what residential property is. So there's really only three broad alternatives here:

1. It's owned by governments at some level. I think we can all agree this would largely be a disaster at any sort of scale;

2. They're owned privately. This could be by individuals or a corporation or a cooperative of some sort; or

3. There is no rental market.

Now as I mentioned in another comment: I do support not having unfettered use of residential property as an investment vehicle but you also need private ownership.

Personally I think a good start would be that the beneficial owner of any property is a resident of that city or state and if they're not, they get charged _much_ higher property tax.

You'll note I said "beneficial owner" there too. You want to hide behind an LLC or corporation to own your property without declaring your ownership? Fine. Pay for that privilege.

Cities should be by and for the residents in them, not hedge funds.

There are a couple of corner cases worth mentioning:

1. Rental buildings (ie not condos) should probably be treated differently than, say, individual units; and

2. I firmly believe that every mobile home park in the country should be able to forcibly purchase the land they're on as a cooperative from the current owner at fair market value. Hedge funds buying up the land mobile homes are on is really a disgusting form of capitalism, preying on some of the most vulnerable.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#124

Post by threatofrain » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:21 AM UTC

afthonos wrote: post #119

ardit33 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you could include Craigslist in that, everything under the sun. AirBnb/VRBO/Boooking.com all have their use. The problem is when people rent/sublet their apt. in buildings that don't allow it, and cause nuisance to all. Buildings should be able to opt out, and airbnb should respect it, and ban users that misuse it. But, i bet, in the name of profit, things get overlooked. Anyways, if Airbnb is banned in a city,…

As always, it’s an issue of reach. AirBnB is the place to book non-hotel accommodations. Anyone who wants to can put their room or flat on there, and everyone who wants to find one knows where to look.

So is the problem that the airbnb app is too good? And the craigslist world is okay?

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#125

Post by voisin » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:21 AM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #120

cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

With or without airbnb, states aren't about to create anything close to a policy which compels existing landowners to rent out parts of their property. How do you increase housing supply?

Connecting two parties together to rent a place is no problem in general. But the difference here is that AirBNB has, until very recently, been extremely focused on short term rentals that walk and talk like hotels. Most cities ban rentals less than 30 days, unless it is a room in someone’s house or another dwelling unit on their property. AirBNB was great when it was filled with this, but as soon as multi-unit operators took over the site and it became filled with unlicensed hotels that flout the city bylaws, it went downhill and I fully agree that this impacted the supply and pushed negative externalities on everyone else.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#126

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:21 AM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #115

cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

> But AirBnB is clearly used to create illegal hotels and that's the problem. The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal. The incentives aren't difficult: Create an anonymous tip line to report illegal AirBnB operations that violate zoning regulations. Have submitters provide the street address and URL of the AirBnB to make it easy. The person operating the AirBnB (or owner of the house…

[deleted]

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#127

Post by dorchadas » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:21 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #116

dorchadas wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do you see as the differences between airbnb and this? Not OP, but I share a similar view. If you're renting out a room of an ADU, you're still occupying the property and using it as housing yourself. The whole difference is that the sole use of the property is not taking it off the long term rental/buying market. With spare rooms/ADUs, that's not the purpose of the property, whereas with renting out a whole h…

I agree with all this. I'll further add that the landlord being there means they can't simply foist loud, unruly or unsafe temporary residents on an area where he or she does not have any skin in the game. That is, they have to suffer the consequences too. This invariably will lead to less negative externalities. But this fits into a broader belief that I have, which is that cities should generally be for the residen…

> But this fits into a broader belief that I have, which is that cities should generally be for the residents of them first and foremost

It's so weird to me to think that this isn't considered the default view. I 100% agree with it, and think it should be the obvious view, but it's clear there's many who do disagree.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#128

Post by Jarwain » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:21 AM UTC

Tempest1981 wrote: post #122

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But AirBnB is clearly used to create illegal hotels and that's the problem. The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal. The incentives aren't difficult: Create an anonymous tip line to report illegal AirBnB operations that violate zoning regulations. Have submitters provide the street address and URL of the AirBnB to make it easy. The person operating the AirBnB (or owner of the house…

But who should pay for the increased enforcement? > anonymous tip line Run by Airbnb? Seems reasonable.

Ideally the fines would pay for the program, but how expensive is it really to have an anonymous phone tip line, and reuse existing infrastructure to fine or ticket a property owner?

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#129

Post by spamizbad » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:21 AM UTC

jwilber wrote: post #40

As this topic becomes more and more mainstream, I look forward to the numerous Twitter posts sure to come from Airbnb employees about the taxing social implications that come with working at Airbnb, how it weighs on their conscious, and and their ultimate decision to follow what’s right and leave. But only after their RSU’s have vested, of course. More seriously, I’ve been very disappointed with Airbnb recently. I sp…

I wouldn't mind the cleaning fees if it wasn't for the fact that of the 3 AirBnBs I've stayed in, 2 of them were not terribly clean despite the host charging a $200 cleaning fee for what was essentially a small 2 bedroom apartment with kitchenette.

I have a suspicion this fee is just pocketed by hosts who just wipe down the kitchen/bathroom, give the toilet and shower a quick clean, change the linens, and then give the floors a quick vacuum. I still find tons of dust on shelves, dust bunnies on floors and in light fixtures, finger prints on mirrors, dirty dishes in cabinets etc. I am by no means super anal about this stuff but if you're going to charge me $200 bucks for just the cleaning I'd expect something more thorough.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#130

Post by cletus » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:23 AM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #115

cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

> But AirBnB is clearly used to create illegal hotels and that's the problem. The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal. The incentives aren't difficult: Create an anonymous tip line to report illegal AirBnB operations that violate zoning regulations. Have submitters provide the street address and URL of the AirBnB to make it easy. The person operating the AirBnB (or owner of the house…

> The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal.

Great idea. Let's fine AirBnB $50,000 per unit per year they knowingly rent out in NYC where they know such things are illegal.

Don't go after the users (those using AirBnB) or the street dealers (those listing individual units). Go after the cartel that knowingly engages in illegal activity on a massive scale.

That'll sort out the problem real quick.