Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI • Hacker News Board

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#121

Post by walru » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 4:55 PM UTC

jeremyarussell wrote: post #103

roc wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "At this point, I'm not sure which one I find more scary." There will always be scofflaws and pranksters. Indeed for our way of life to be assured, they must be able to exist. The ever-growing reach of the military-espionage-industrial complex is the only real threat.

I have to find myself agreeing with this, the fact that these individuals (FBI members, govt agencies in general.) are funded beyond the means of normal individuals and given resources that money can't buy. (well I'm sure enough of it can.) Gives them an edge that many people can't fight against. They can do whatever they want with impunity. Now I can't say that opening up a server and releasing all it's users passwo…

The fact that we're even able to have these thoughtful discussions means that at least we're evolving as a species.

For the sake of our survival, may we eventually get to a point where people are judged more for how they treat others, rather than what they are able to purchase.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#122

Post by dwilson718 » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 4:56 PM UTC

I'm sure most of the people here missed the fact that this is a wake-up call. its meant to make people THINK long and hard about the real issues at hand.

I don't know about you, but I'm seeing a lot of critical thinking going on. It's this reason I support these groups.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#123

Post by ditojim » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 5:06 PM UTC

ddw wrote: post #98

nathanb wrote: post #71

"it's entirely unacceptable to break into websites and commit unlawful acts" This is quite the hypocritical statement coming from the FBI. As far as I can tell, the only difference between Anonymous, Lulzsec, and the FBI is that the FBI act by executive fiat. I don't support Internet vigilanteism, but I also don't support the concept of the FBI as an untouchable force who are no longer held accountable by the public…

Even if Lulzsec gets some of your data, they aren't going to create a huge database of it. The FBI on the other hand...

but the internet is one huge database, and that is where their info is released.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#124

Post by p4bl0 » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 5:14 PM UTC

sigzero wrote: post #44

flocial wrote: post #29

The Lulzsec crew and Wiki Leaks strikes a nerve like modern day Robin Hoods. It makes you wonder if those of us in wealthy democracies are actually experiencing a peculiarly 21st century form of passive aggressive oppression where we may be "free" but monitored and essentially feel helpless and the fact that these unknown hackers are able to duck and evade the same forces that can hunt and kill terrorists with disreg…

They are in no way "modern day Robin Hoods". Hoodlums maybe.

A lot of people seems to miss the fact that LulzSec #antisec etc. are the new Yippies[1] and pastebin is their new TAP[2]. Their goals are not very different and the means of action are just 40 years later. The "for teh lulz" part was already there too.

[1] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Yippies

[2] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Youth_Interna...

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#125

Post by jxcole » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 5:16 PM UTC

Why does Anonymous focus so much on attacking the US government (and related rich democratic countries) when it could instead be focused on fighting the governments that are actually oppressive? Nothing the US has ever done, even at it's most oppressive, could ever compare to what North Korea does to it's own citizen's on a regular basis. I would probably be much more sympathetic towards their cause if they focused most on attacking the organizations that are the worst rather than attacking the organizations that will get them the most attention. I read somewhere that an Anonymous hacker used to fight oppressive governments in Africa. Why did he stop? Why does he all the sudden need to deface PBS because they printed negative press coverage of their favorite website, WikiLeaks?

Are they really doing this for the good of mankind or are they just trying to get attention? Anonymous though they may be, they still seem to be just trying to get on the 5:00 news.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#126

Post by tvon » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 5:17 PM UTC

burgerbrain wrote: post #94

gdcbyers wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except we aren't the sheriff in this scenario. We are the people Robin Hood is trying to help. And I say petty thuggery and vandalism aren't helping.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome Among other things.

Please do more to make your argument than just tossing out a link to Wikipedia.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#127

Post by 18pfsmt » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 5:17 PM UTC

gdcbyers wrote: post #115

burgerbrain wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome Among other things.

Please clarify this statement. Are you suggesting that my distain for LulzSec and its methods are some how the result of brain washing or extreme trama? And if "We the people" are the Sheriff in this little Robin Hood adventure, who are the poor villagers Robin is trying to help? What a ridiculous reply. Or are we just naming random psychological phenomenon? If thats the case, I choose http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr…

My attempt at understanding burgerbrain's comment leads me to believe that "we the people" are the victims, and our kidnappers are the government and corporate super powers operating via government action to provide legitimacy. While the Antisec people are trying to save us.

I'm not saying I agree, but that's my interpretation.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#128

Post by spindritf » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 5:23 PM UTC

jxcole wrote: post #125

Why does Anonymous focus so much on attacking the US government (and related rich democratic countries) when it could instead be focused on fighting the governments that are actually oppressive? Nothing the US has ever done, even at it's most oppressive, could ever compare to what North Korea does to it's own citizen's on a regular basis. I would probably be much more sympathetic towards their cause if they focused m…

What can they attack in NK? Most governments that are truly oppressive don't have the kind of web presence and dependence on the Internet that make anonymous-style exploits viable.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#129

Post by mquander » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 5:25 PM UTC

jxcole wrote: post #125

Why does Anonymous focus so much on attacking the US government (and related rich democratic countries) when it could instead be focused on fighting the governments that are actually oppressive? Nothing the US has ever done, even at it's most oppressive, could ever compare to what North Korea does to it's own citizen's on a regular basis. I would probably be much more sympathetic towards their cause if they focused m…

Does it really come as a shock that people prefer to protest the powers that are oppressing them and their friends, rather than the powers that are oppressing someone else on the other side of the planet?

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#130

Post by knieveltech » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 5:27 PM UTC

jxcole wrote: post #125

Why does Anonymous focus so much on attacking the US government (and related rich democratic countries) when it could instead be focused on fighting the governments that are actually oppressive? Nothing the US has ever done, even at it's most oppressive, could ever compare to what North Korea does to it's own citizen's on a regular basis. I would probably be much more sympathetic towards their cause if they focused m…

A few points to consider:

1. Last time I checked North Korea wasn't founded on a series of charter documents proclaiming freedom from opression being a foundational concept.

2. What other governments are doing has absolutely no bearing on the US government systematically dismantling it's citizens personal freedoms.

3. If you really think the US government at it's worst can't compare with various tin pot dictatorships around the world (including North Korea) you need to take a survey course on US history. Forced sterilization in the name of eugenics, concentration camps, genocide, political prisoners, murder, corruption... you name it, the US has done it at one time or another.