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World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

independent.co.uk

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Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#121

Post by barsonme »

legulere wrote: post #97
barsonme wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Usually you don’t get anything in exchange for working hard. A nice paycheck at the end of the month?

But pay does not depend on how hard you actually work.

Sure it does. My employer notices when I work hard. Since they want to retain me as an employee, they compensate me accordingly. Similarly, I were to _not_ work hard my employer would certainly notice and want to reduce my compensation.

Working hard is not the same thing as working long hours or giving extra of myself. Working hard simply means working intelligently, thoughtfully, and to the best of my abilities.

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#122

Post by MaxBarraclough »

BayAreaEscapee wrote: post #91
ambicapter wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're in the military and you can't call "Bill" in for a meeting? This is not how I picture the military. I was under the impression push comes to shove, if your superior says you have to be somewhere, you _will_ be there, regardless of what its for.

Yes, I had that impression too. If my memory is right, that's how Reagan broke the Air Traffic Controllers' strike: many of them were military reserve members, and so Reagan fired them as civilians and then recalled them to active military service where they were subject to the UMCJ.

Looking at Wikipedia, I don't think that's right. Even civilian ATC had no right to strike. Reagan highlighted their oath not to strike, threatened to fire anyone who continued to strike, and then did so, dismissing over 11,000 controllers and banning them from future ATC work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Contr...

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#123

Post by MrDresden »

justshowpost wrote: post #102
paxys wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making the assumption that 1 unit of time spent on the clock maps exactly to 1 unit of productive output, which I'm willing to bet is very far from the case.

Very likely. Chances what this whole experiment was initiated by the studies confirming what employees are slacking at Fridays anyway.

I'm an Icelander, and am not so sure that is the case.

Though I was not part of the test in question, my union (which thankfully are still strong in Iceland) did negotiate a reduction in working hours so as to allow every member to take a half a day off once a month without a pay cut. The catch being that this half a day has to be used inside each month and does not get transfered over to the next (use it or loose it).

This option has been on the table for a little more than a year now.

What I have observed (n=1) (in my team in a software department) is that at months end most of us have this half a day off and then scramble to figure out how we can use it.

This is in part since the work place is already very flexible when it comes to the employees live's. Need to leave at 15:00 to pick up the kids? Go for it. Have a dentist appointment at 9:00 and will miss standup? No worries. If you get the tasks done, it wont be an issue. And as such, most of the time, there isn't this longing for the weekend which I'd think causes productivity to drop on fridays.

There sure is to be slacking in our culture, and as a teenager I sure did experience work that dulled the brain. But overall I don't think there is a whole working class that is just playing with their thumbs after lunch on fridays.

It would just seem "off" to an Icelander (n=1).

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#124

Post by dash2 »

Right, this looks like horsecrap.

* No randomization. The treatment groups were selected on the basis of existing "high levels of stress". The control groups weren't. So, just regression to the mean could explain any results.

* Everyone wanted in. "The trial grew almost thirty times in size over the next five years, to around 2,500 participating staff in response to early positive results." Sure, who wouldn't demand a shorter week for the same pay? But now you've lost control of your experiment.

* Hello, Hawthorne effect. "Hey, we're testing low hours and if you hit all these KPIs we'll make them permanent!" Solve for the equilibrium.

This isn't science. It's marketing bullshit. Honestly, you can tell that just from the elegantly selected fonts.

Suckers everywhere are going to lap it up. Of course! They want to believe.

As people get richer they want more leisure. That's fine. Any nation can choose to be lotus-eaters. Just don't pretend to have scientifically proved you won't get poorer.

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#125

Post by MrDresden »

aero-glide2 wrote: post #56

As long as the government doesn't make it mandatory, don't see any problems with this.

In Iceland, these kinds of things are negotiated between employeers and unions. Unions in Iceland still stand strong and are not tied to certain workplaces like in the US (which gives them greater negotiating power).

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#126

Post by MrDresden »

machinehermiter wrote: post #105
koch wrote: post #54

It's so weird to me to see people argue against a shorter work week. > I enjoy working 5 days a week, it gives me more time to ... Ok, by all means, keep doing that? If you have this position you are probably already working on the weekend anyway. You can live (thrive, even!) in a society that has a 4 day week and still work 5 days. Go for it. > It'll never happen / It's a pipe dream So was women's rights, civil righ…

IMO there is an equilibrium problem. I really have no problem working 45 hours a week. I am not changing to 36 hours a week while a co-worker works 45 and then the co-worker is the one who ends up getting promoted. I am not working in a coal mine or digging ditches that my body is breaking down after 35 hours. I am perfectly capable of 45 high quality hours a week of mental work a week that I enjoy doing. That is wha…

I'm truly sorry that your reality has imposed that view on you.

In my reality, someone who works less is able to relax more, leading to potentially better throught out work (be it code, design, writing, teaching etc).

In the end, the individual with the higher quality work will receive extra benefits. Not the one who produces the most.

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#127

Post by Aditya_Garg »

jimmygrapes wrote: post #119
secfirstmd wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically the military is one of the worse places for usage and wastage of time. There is tons of accountability for some stuff ("How much diesel did you put in that jeep?") but very little for people's time ("Let's have 300 infantry here an hour earlier than necessary before an event, even though it costs X per hour per person for them to be standing around doing nothing.) It's also the same around some safety stuf…

The key here is that military members are salaried; the situation where they are told to stand around for x hours doing nothing changes nothing financially. It might make the people upset, but what can they realistically do? No show is punishable more strictly than a civilian speeding ticket, AWOL is potentially akin to a DUI or murder charge. And it's rare! Why is that? Because the vast majority are indoctrinated? O…

The fact that they’re salaried doesn’t matter. It’s still costing the government x dollars an hour for people to stand around doing nothing when that time could be better spent.

In fact I’d say if you were actually paid by the hour, you’d probably see less of this type of waste.

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#128

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #89
ambicapter wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're in the military and you can't call "Bill" in for a meeting? This is not how I picture the military. I was under the impression push comes to shove, if your superior says you have to be somewhere, you _will_ be there, regardless of what its for.

Yeah, odd idea.. do they also stop shooting at the enemy at 17:00:01, because "Sorry boss, I'm off the clock?"

Sometimes...

[1] https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/multimedia/no-more-9-to-5_swiss...

;->

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