Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 364 posts

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#121

Post by crazygringo »

xadhominemx wrote: post #80
reducesuffering wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because minority rights. >I’m sure a small number of people like that exist but it’s not really worth carving out complex exceptions to vaccination rules (specifying which kind of antibody tests administered by who and when, etc.) to accommodate their preferences. You might as well be saying this about accessibility rules for disabled people.

I honestly cannot tell if this is a parody comment. It is just too on the nose.

You're being downvoted and flagged because your comments are breaking site guidelines:

"Be kind. Don't be snarky.... Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community." [1]

If you want to participate here, please don't make comments like this one.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#122

Post by Steltek »

reedjosh wrote: post #88
r00fus wrote: post #52

Can someone tell me why we (US) don't have a vaccine passport yet?

Because authoritarianism is antithetical to our founding nature. A centralized database that is used to control individuals is akin to China's social credit system. I've actually started seeing people argue for China style systems, and I find it both frightening and sickening. When I start to push back at all, I usually get arguments like `Leave the US if you don't like it.`, and sure I'll just pick up and leave the…

Could you apply this same argument to taxes/SSNs, drivers licenses[+], and other existing centralized systems in the US?

+: Let's be honest, driver's licenses are practically required and you attract extra scrutiny if you don't have one.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#123

Post by JumpCrisscross »

wait_a_minute wrote: post #116
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a past positive Covid test or a positive antibody test, that is just as good as a record of being vaccinated Immunity from non-symptomatic infection differs wildly from symptomatic infection. It's also less flexible with new variants. I agree that there should be a way to document this. But there are still benefits to keeping certain spaces for the vaccinated only, to allow for denser mixing et cetera .

There should not and will not be a centralized way to document any such thing in the USA, and we will not in the USA tolerate the idea of keeping "certain spaces for the vaccinated only" unless you're referring to hospitals only. We will not restrict entry into normalcy on the basis of status, be it vaccination or antibody status. Florida and other states have been open for a long time and the numbers have been consi…

> we will not in the USA tolerate the idea of keeping "certain spaces for the vaccinated only" unless you're referring to hospitals only

This is a regional thing. Most large events in New York have been mandating and verifying vaccination. Most major offices are tracking vaccination status--you're not barred, but you need to wear a mask if you aren't. (Though some are refusing the unvaccinated.)

In dense, urban environments this is sort of necessary. In Jackson, Wyoming it's not.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#124

Post by wait_a_minute »

sjwalter wrote: post #78
munk-a wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't - it's providing unified and clear guidance on vaccination. I'm up in Canada where vaccine hesitancy has been almost unheard of[1] and those who refuse to get vaccinated, excepting those that can't for medical reasons, are ostracized for their overtly selfish actions. The US, though, has a real problem with disinformation being accepted more readily than fact. I am fine with the theory of having a nuanced…

As a Canadian who emigrated to the US, the attitude you so proudly display--ostracizing people who aren't convinced of a novel vaccine with zero long-term safety information--makes me so happy I live here.

Hear hear. That will never be the norm in the United States of America, no matter what some cliques and bubbles online seem to think.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#126

Post by incrudible »

munk-a wrote: post #69
YawningAngel wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite irresponsible to try and coerce people who don't need treatment to accept it as well

No it isn't - it's providing unified and clear guidance on vaccination. I'm up in Canada where vaccine hesitancy has been almost unheard of[1] and those who refuse to get vaccinated, excepting those that can't for medical reasons, are ostracized for their overtly selfish actions. The US, though, has a real problem with disinformation being accepted more readily than fact. I am fine with the theory of having a nuanced…

> I'm up in Canada where vaccine hesitancy has been almost unheard of[1] and those who refuse to get vaccinated, excepting those that can't for medical reasons, are ostracized for their overtly selfish actions.

In other words, those who value individual freedom might want to avoid Canada for its over-boarding groupthink and overtly collectivist mentality.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#127

Post by reducesuffering »

mulmen wrote: post #112
reducesuffering wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then there's the elephant in the room: so few people have been tested that it really difficult to know who has had it. Anyone who has had a cold in the past 18 months is going to claim they had covid, regardless of whether they tested positive or not. There are many many people who have confirmed positive COVID tests. At least excuse those. >I think it's a little irresponsible to society to give anyone an out on ge…

> Maybe we should require the vaccinated to keep getting more vaccine shots until science shows they're at par with natural antibodies, lowest hanging fruit and all... Why would we do that when the vaccines are safer than the actual disease and effective enough to contain the spread?

There are repeated calls demanding people with antibodies should be required to get a vaccine shot. However most available science points towards natural immunity having slightly better protection. Is there any science whatsoever showing that antibodies + 1 more shot is better than 2 vaccine shots + 1 additional shot? If antibodies are still more protected than 2 shots, how do we know which option provides the most marginal protection? You could easily make the case that since the current science is showing natural antibodies have more comprehensive protection than 2 dose shots, that maybe our first priority should be giving 2 dosers a third shot?

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#129

Post by _Microft »

reducesuffering wrote: post #67
mywittyname wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccination is more comprehensive than natural immunity though. We've already see that the BNT vaccine offers a higher degree of protection against variants than natural immunity, or indeed other vaccines. Reinfection studies from a few months ago demonstrated that natural immunity is roughly 50% effective for people aged 65 or over. And that's the age group most likely to experience negative outcomes from covid-19,…

> Then there's the elephant in the room: so few people have been tested that it really difficult to know who has had it. Anyone who has had a cold in the past 18 months is going to claim they had covid, regardless of whether they tested positive or not. There are many many people who have confirmed positive COVID tests. At least excuse those. >I think it's a little irresponsible to society to give anyone an out on ge…

Isn’t the number of antibodies after a COVID infection far lower than after receiving the vaccine? I thought that’s why a jab after an infection is actually still recommended, to boost the number to levels that vaccinated see?

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#130

Post by reedjosh »

Steltek wrote: post #122
reedjosh wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because authoritarianism is antithetical to our founding nature. A centralized database that is used to control individuals is akin to China's social credit system. I've actually started seeing people argue for China style systems, and I find it both frightening and sickening. When I start to push back at all, I usually get arguments like `Leave the US if you don't like it.`, and sure I'll just pick up and leave the…

Could you apply this same argument to taxes/SSNs, drivers licenses[+], and other existing centralized systems in the US? +: Let's be honest, driver's licenses are practically required and you attract extra scrutiny if you don't have one.

> Could you apply this same argument to taxes/SSNs, drivers licenses[+], and other existing centralized systems in the US?

Sure, but at least driver's licenses are about public spaces. I can drive on private property all I want without a license.

As for the other systems, I personally don't much believe those are okay either, but that's a much deeper argument than this.

We've been losing our rights since the income tax and probably prior. I just want us to stop losing them at a minimum, but asking for that is viewed as some kind of major indiscretion.

Post reply on HN