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‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

cam.ac.uk

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Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#121

Post by robertlagrant »

shadowlight wrote: post #113
robertlagrant wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they fought through the means of consumer choice, the least oppressive means in history. And they lost. Nuclear waste doesn't have fallout. Coal today is causing more radiation deaths than nuclear.

> Yes they fought through the means of consumer choice, the least oppressive means in history. And they lost. They lied and deliberately used biased scientific research. These execs even swore on oath IN a congressional hearing before congress that tobacco was healthy even when internal documents leaked by a whistleblower told the exact opposite. This is the new way to oppress people. Lies, deception, omission and ob…

> Sorry for getting personal, but background influences bias. You seem to be a guy who's super rich and an owner or shareholder of big business.

I'm not any of those things; my family grew up with our Dad maintaining 2 30-year-old cars to keep costs down. I would advise a) keeping any biases in check and b) realising that even if I were wealthy, that would in no way affect the relative safety issues between different power generation methods.

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#122

Post by robertlagrant »

shadowlight wrote: post #119
powerslacker wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, shadowlight! Your comment here is a bit out of place. HN is a nice place where folks come for interesting news and conversation. In order to keep this place civil there are guidelines in place, which you can find at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and review at your leisure. I've included some here for your reference: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Pleas…

Except I'm not doing ANY of that. Your comment is deceptively insulting and your tone is overly polite and fake. Case in point: "Hi shadowlight!". Look, I remained impartial and neutral and civil in my comment. Read it carefully there is no violation of the rules, I've been here longer than you for sure so I know the rules and I know what constitutes a violation. This is NOT it. No seriously, it's like a murderer acc…

This is not civil, FYI:

> So in essence you don't know what will happen in the future. You have no clue yet you support it blindly, why?

>

> That is my point. You don't know and you don't give a shit. The long term effects are irrelevant to you.

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#123

Post by ehutch79 »

biomcgary wrote: post #110
ehutch79 wrote: post #109

silk is still an animal product, so really, it's not vegan at all.

grown in a plant using silk like proteins, not using actual spiders.

Why does it say spider silk in the title then?

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#124

Post by dataangel »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #86
goodpoint wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You do not think the general public would be pissed off This is a strawman and a false dichotomy often pushed by the industry: 1) choose between modern lifestyle and its ecosocial impact or go back to 1900. Other options cannot be discussed 2) make a mess (e.g. microplastics) and then blame/fine consumers for despite being overwhelmingly responsible for the decisions around industrial processes e.g. https://www.the…

I did not come to my conclusion due to “the industry”. I came to it from observing how people behave and what their expectations are. When people’s expectations are not met, it causes unhappiness. I do not know any people with kids that would choose to live in apartments, or without cars. I would be surprised if there is anything more than a tiny minority (in the US) with kids that does not have a goal of living in a…

> Companies being responsible for emissions is just a fiction of accounting.

Uh, you think Bob leaving the lights on in his house compares to operating a factory in terms of carbon emissions? I haven't seen the data and you aren't presenting any but my default assumption would definitely be that industry manufacturing and farming things at huge scale and pumping exhaust into the air by the ton is a way bigger factor than whether Bob drives a hybrid.

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#125

Post by midjji »

pizza234 wrote: post #2

Something I don't fully understand is why single-use plastics are still in use. Every once in a while, a replacement is advertised, but still not used. The reasons I can think of are: 1. cost - this could be an very simple reason; 2. conflictual requirement - the supposition that chemical indestructibility is what makes plastic at the same time necessary but problematic. Is there any other factor/complexity I'm missi…

Depends on how much you generalize these statements. Plastic manufacture and logistics scales better than almost everything, mostly because of its chemical resistance, which is fantastic for transport and storage, even when its useless to the end user.

One aspect many miss is that it does not matter if plastics can be recycled as long as it is used rather than dumped into landfill or rivers. Almost all consumer plastics, like most trash, can be profitably burned as fuel in almost all rich countries rather than being recycled. A typical example of this is the trashburning thermal plant in linköping which quite profitably heats the entire city while also providing power and not contaminating the environment beyond the co2 released. It takes a great deal of prefiltering, but it works and the plastics and organics which make up most garbage are good fuel. The additional CO2 released isn't great, but its worth remembering that while plastic in landfills do not contribute to global warming, the methane released by decaying biomass its mixed with both of which could have been burned is a hundred times worse per mass. So burning trash is better for the environment than dumping it in a landfill, and far better than dumping it in oceans or rivers. Burning collected garbage does not solve littering, but littering is insignificant compared to the amounts collected as garbage and then inappropriately disposed of. Inappropriately disposed of includes landfills where birds get to it and fly away with it btw.

This is so obvious and so ignored by the current debate it makes me wonder if someone is trying to point to single use plastics as a scapegoat for bad landfill and garbage management, rather than actually caring. You know, just like they successfully convinced people the problem was caused by individual littering, rather than poor garbage collection a few decades ago.

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#126

Post by pvaldes »

xvilka wrote: post #44
bserge wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I thought they taught spiders to eat plants. Afaik, the vast majority are carnivore (by need not by choice).

There is exactly one "vegan" spider species[1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagheera_kiplingi

vegetarian, not vegan

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#127

Post by pvaldes »

boston_clone wrote: post #60
unknown_error wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can actually choose whether they want to be milked every morning. One line leads to a tiny milking station. There, retired surgeons use designer nanopumps to relieve silk gland tensions. The spiders appreciate it and get a tiny block of tofu fly treat afterward. The spiders who don't want to be milked that particular day can instead enjoy a relaxing day. They other like goes to the relaxation area, full of empty…

It seems rude to trivialize efforts that reduce the unnecessary suffering and killing of billions of animals every year, don’t you think? The last paragraph is ripe with ignorance, too. What exactly were you trying to achieve with your comment?

Those people just promise that they will reduce suffering it, but is fake advertising. This is the real problem.

Cherry picking the most outrageous cases and in denial about the real consequences of their actions. Releasing minks, for example, is increasing animal suffering, not decreasing it. Opening the chimp cages in a zoo leads not to the chimps being happy, it leads to chimps being shoot and dead, etc, etc...

But they are basically blind to anything excepts what it fits in the narrative. They just choose the next victim, collect the money, and move on.

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#128

Post by unknown_error »

boston_clone wrote: post #108
unknown_error wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO only -- I don't claim to be representative of any other planteater but myself -- it sought holistic, transformative change. Rather than just "eat less meat" (like Meatless Mondays, which is supposed to be a stepping stone), it was maybe more aligned with the Slow Food movement ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_Food ) in that it wanted people to think about how our food systems are connected to not just animal…

It seems what you may be recognizing is the delineation between veganism and a plant-based diet. I consider veganism a philosophy that leads to inevitable action in the world, contrasted against a plant-based diet which is just that - flexible (e.g. those half-meat abominations, or blended cows milk with oat milk), not particularly rooted in selfless ideology/thought process, and excludes all the other ways that othe…

(Sorry for the slow reply! Your response made me want to dwell on this some more before answering.) One, whatever my replies may be, I am by no means either a purist or an exemplar. I appreciate delicious foodlike products as much as anyone. I just wish it didn't stop there. But I'm also terrible at keeping up with purity. At the end of the day I usually just eat whatever I'm craving, usually mac and (shitty) cheese more than anything pure or whole.

Two, yes, I'd love to meet up in Austin at some point! I've heard good things about it and always wanted to visit. If I make it out there at some point I'll definitely hit you up.

Three, I have to admit I never thought about the First Amendment issues around this, with Schinner vs the meat industry lawyers as to what the word "dairy" means or "cow" or "burger". Miyoko's is (frankly) just aight, but that they're fighting the good fight means a lot. I have mad respect for the idealists.

What would your ideal world be like?

I used to think I knew the answer to that. As I got to know more people and animals, I'm no longer sure I do. Predator-prey gives way to primary producers and decomposers, with humans caught in the middle trying to oversimplify it all.

Our fatalistic flaw may not even be our selfishness, but our hedonism. We don't plan evil, we just act according to our (base) urges. 99% of us, anyway. We're doomed by genetics, not immorality.

Sorry. I'm pretty drunk. Would love to hear your thoughts, here, or over a beer someday in Austin.

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#129

Post by shadowlight »

robertlagrant wrote: post #122
shadowlight wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except I'm not doing ANY of that. Your comment is deceptively insulting and your tone is overly polite and fake. Case in point: "Hi shadowlight!". Look, I remained impartial and neutral and civil in my comment. Read it carefully there is no violation of the rules, I've been here longer than you for sure so I know the rules and I know what constitutes a violation. This is NOT it. No seriously, it's like a murderer acc…

This is not civil, FYI: > So in essence you don't know what will happen in the future. You have no clue yet you support it blindly, why? > > That is my point. You don't know and you don't give a shit. The long term effects are irrelevant to you.

That is completely civil. It is just to the point and adamant rather than fake and simpish and overly polite. Whether what I stated is true or untrue, the nature of what I said was not derogatory or insulting.

I specifically stated that the person supports something, and in my opinion, blindly. I also stated he doesn't care about something and I ALSO implied most of the population of the world doesn't care EITHER. Those are words that are forceful But civil.

You are totally not comprehending the difference between civility and servitude. Learn to put force, power and truth behind your conviction while being civil and not being afraid to harm the other persons precious feelings.

Re: ‘Vegan spider silk’ provides sustainable alternative to single-use plastics

#130

Post by shadowlight »

robertlagrant wrote: post #121
shadowlight wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes they fought through the means of consumer choice, the least oppressive means in history. And they lost. They lied and deliberately used biased scientific research. These execs even swore on oath IN a congressional hearing before congress that tobacco was healthy even when internal documents leaked by a whistleblower told the exact opposite. This is the new way to oppress people. Lies, deception, omission and ob…

> Sorry for getting personal, but background influences bias. You seem to be a guy who's super rich and an owner or shareholder of big business. I'm not any of those things; my family grew up with our Dad maintaining 2 30-year-old cars to keep costs down. I would advise a) keeping any biases in check and b) realising that even if I were wealthy, that would in no way affect the relative safety issues between different…

> I would advise a) keeping any biases in check

They are in check. I said you seem like a rich person. I didn't say you ARE rich. I would still wager a guess that although you grew up poor you currently are quite well off compared with your past.

What is influencing my reasoning is not bias. You support free market policies that encourage wealth inequality. This benefits those who are rich. Hence my guess is you must be rich because than this would benefit you.

It had nothing to do with power generation but more to do with how you're stating the corporate interests of companies like big tobacco/oil were fair because of "consumer choice."

That is a logical deduction of the situation to formulate hypothesis. It is not a hypothesis derived from bias.

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