Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 198 posts

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#121

Post by Kiro »

taylorfinley wrote: post #73

I feel like a lot of people posting in this thread would benefit from reading Dang's post [0] from a few days ago about how shallow cryptocurrency discussions tend to be on HN and how we should all aim for a better level of discourse. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27497207

Is there a term for this kind of "shallow" discussions/responses? E.g. if headline is about X but in the vicinity of Y the thread gets filled with generic comments about Y that have nothing to do with X.

It's obviously not exclusive to HN. I keep seeing it on reddit all the time and it's really tiring.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#122

Post by [deleted] »

bawolff wrote: post #101
desine wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The public justification for killing Gaddafi is 'stopping the imminent genocide', which by the way, he literally declared he was about to commit. >The thing is, geopolitics is messy and there are quite a number of 'factors' many of them true to some extent. Yes, exactly. It's not that I know I am right, or that there's one answer. But it is interesting only one of the discussions is allowed, and one very plausible e…

> But it is interesting only one of the discussions is allowed Is someone stopping you? Having people not be convinced is not the same as preventing discussion.

[deleted]

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#123

Post by desine »

bawolff wrote: post #117
desine wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rhetoric used stops me from bringing it up, in certain circles. I really only can bring it up with close friends/family, or anonymously on the web. I've been called anti-semitic, racist, alt-right, my intelligence insulted. Again, related to another comment in this thread, it's seen as a "conspiracy theory". The mainstream news media didn't cover it, but certain less tasteful websites did.

I mean, you presented the theory with no evidence that it happened. Your argument is basically that the united states could have done it, had motive to do it, and has a history of doing underhanded things in the past. Even if for the sake of argument i grant all of those things, its still not any more plausible than the official story. If you don't want people to call it a conspiracy theory, get some actual evidence…

The point is not to determine the actual reason(s) - us plebs will likely never know. The point is to examine the possibility that sometimes alternative explanations to the official narrative could be plausible. Which loops back to how this all started and my original comment, that there's a narrative of electrical power usage and transparency issues - which are real. But there's other plausible explanations - political power and control. Even if the latter were true, it's unlikely the World Bank would cite them in their response.

Most of this thread stemming from my comment has been around "conspiracy theories" and such, which I find disappointing, because there is a healthy level of skepticism and distrust that should be applied to these institutions.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#124

Post by jollybean »

tracedddd wrote: post #112
remarkEon wrote: post #60

A lot of these Bitcoin threads get old. The detractors, the pumpers, the bag hodlers ... it's all so tiresome. Here's something I want answered (all three parties are invited to respond): Is there a dependency on mature internet infrastructure that exists for a country to adopt BTC as its currency? Seems like there is to me, but maybe I'm not fully appreciating how this works or am overestimating the connectivity req…

I don’t believe there is such a requirement. I suppose it depends how deep of an integration you’re imagining. At the no-tech level you can simply have crypto backed redeemable notes - like the old gold standard. There are also things like M Pesa/MobileMoney which have half a billion users in sub Saharan Africa. Simply an account balance held by telcos, accessible from any GSM phone. It’s custodial but could easily s…

" At the no-tech level you can simply have crypto backed redeemable notes - like the old gold standard."

If the government had any credibility whatsoever, the could already do this with any number of backing mechanisms.

If they want to 'go hard' they can buy gold.

Their plan is to mine BTC for solvency anyhow - mine some BTC, buy gold, and voila - reserves.

But realistically, if they were competent enough for that, they could also issue a well managed fiat, which would allow them to be much more nimble.

The 'tech' required for those who can use it should not be that hard, much easier than BTC. BTC 'wallets' are not really suitable for regular consumer consumption anyhow.

The point is, none of this has to do with BTC it has to with the credibility of the government, which is very limited.

If they sorted out their leadership, not only would they have a sound monetary system ... they'd have a sound financial and legal system and a healthy country overall.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#125

Post by kemonocode »

Kiro wrote: post #121
taylorfinley wrote: post #73

I feel like a lot of people posting in this thread would benefit from reading Dang's post [0] from a few days ago about how shallow cryptocurrency discussions tend to be on HN and how we should all aim for a better level of discourse. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27497207

Is there a term for this kind of "shallow" discussions/responses? E.g. if headline is about X but in the vicinity of Y the thread gets filled with generic comments about Y that have nothing to do with X. It's obviously not exclusive to HN. I keep seeing it on reddit all the time and it's really tiring.

I just call it appealing to the lowest common denominator.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#126

Post by squabble »

erulabs wrote: post #106
remarkEon wrote: post #60

A lot of these Bitcoin threads get old. The detractors, the pumpers, the bag hodlers ... it's all so tiresome. Here's something I want answered (all three parties are invited to respond): Is there a dependency on mature internet infrastructure that exists for a country to adopt BTC as its currency? Seems like there is to me, but maybe I'm not fully appreciating how this works or am overestimating the connectivity req…

I agree strongly with the tiresome comment, and I am a bag holder and have been interested in monetary policy and economics my entire life - but not enough to read the same 10 comments over and over every day. In answer to your question, technically no, but realistically yes. Technically, BTC “transactions” can happen "on paper", the keys can be physically handed off to each other, etc (there are plenty of possible a…

You're wrong about BTC transactions happening on physical paper with no connection to the network. It's not possible.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#127

Post by SkyMarshal »

taylorfinley wrote: post #73

I feel like a lot of people posting in this thread would benefit from reading Dang's post [0] from a few days ago about how shallow cryptocurrency discussions tend to be on HN and how we should all aim for a better level of discourse. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27497207

Dang has had to post that admonition so many times the past few weeks, he really out to just auto-pin it at the top of the main page. Make it “Readme First” FAQ thread or something.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#128

Post by sgift »

desine wrote: post #89
astrange wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conspiracy theory about moving off the petrodollar, presumably.

One other thing - I hate the term "conspiracy theory". It was literally coined by the CIA to discredit discussion of actual conspiracies. But that's just another crazy conspiracy theory for another HN thread.

> The Oxford English Dictionary defines conspiracy theory as "the theory that an event or phenomenon occurs as a result of a conspiracy between interested parties; spec. a belief that some covert but influential agency (typically political in motivation and oppressive in intent) is responsible for an unexplained event". It cites a 1909 article in The American Historical Review as the earliest usage example,[37][38] although it also appeared in print as early as April 1870.[39]

And it seems they even used time travel to do it.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#129

Post by tracedddd »

bawolff wrote: post #92

I don't get it, why is this the sort of thing the world bank would help with at all. Isn't it up to El Salvador to figure out how to do this? If they were just adopting a new fiat currency, wouldn't it be up to El Salvador to implement? Why would the world bank be involved?

I assumed it was one of those situations in which you ask around even though chances are slim because there is virtually no cost in doing so.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#130

Post by desine »

Centrino wrote: post #118
desine wrote: post #19

They cite environmental and transparency concerns, but somehow I believe it's more about control and ensuring the continuation of the debt based fiat systems. I have a litmus test I use when discussing global financial politics with friends - "What were the main factors you think lead to Ghaddafi's killing?"

Gaddafi had launched the idea of a pan-African gold dinar at least since 2002. He was killed in 2011. The driving force for military action against Lybia in 2011 was not the US, but France. Obama and Hillary Clinton only reluctantly went along with Sarkozy's initiative for military action. Your suggested link between Ghaddafi's killing and "debt based fiat systems" is a conspiracy theory promoted by Russian propagand…

>Gaddafi had launched the idea of a pan-African gold dinar at least since 2002. He was killed in 2011.

True, and I don't claim it's fact (discussed in sibling comments) - just something to consider. But there's also a difference between floating the idea, and amassing enough gold to actually pull it off, and he was acquiring quite the stack from what I hear.

>Your suggested link between Ghaddafi's killing and "debt based fiat systems" is a conspiracy theory promoted by Russian propaganda channels like RT, but not backed up by facts.

There's that phrase again. Not everything RT says is a lie. I don't make the claim to know the inner workings of the global political elite. I just like to see which of my friends only get their propaganda from MSNBC/CNN/Fox, and which like to sprinkle in a little zerohedge and RT

Post reply on HN