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Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

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Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#121

Post by naruvimama »

naruvimama wrote: post #98
tln750 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This obsession with trying to somehow make the Buddha and his teaching as a branch of Hinduism falls flat on its face when you look at his teaching even cursorily. The central tenet of the Buddha's position was his exposition of anatta (not-self), which is directly opposed to all Hindu doctrines which preach that finding one's 'true self' is the goal of existence. Instead, the Buddha taught that the search for a 'tru…

For me Hinduism is an ecosystem as is for millions of Hindus. A Hindu will feel very comfortable in a Buddhist temple and practice and vice versa. Hindus themselves have extremely diverse traditions. I see where we have diverging views. My Swedish landlords who happens to be a Christian once asked we where is your holy book. In her mind not having a one-one equivalent with Christianity delegitimises the religion. In…

@ir123

If you have been under Islamic and xtian occupation for a 1000 years, there isn't a lot of options.

Some communities are driven to extreme poverty and it becomes a dog eat dog world.

Considering Islam in Perssia completely wiped out the culture in 50 years.

And it took only 150 years for xtianity to wipe out pagan culture in Europe or the Americas.

Caste as a system was clearly used by the British to separate communities at different levels of destitution coopting some as native informants.

Even in current day USA people are divided on their political, regional, occupational lines. Dems and Reps each consider themselves superior and the other one dumb. Inspite of public schools there is a big impact of family background even in politics.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#122

Post by random314 »

orwin wrote: post #71
rsj_hn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western Liberal democracy is basically vanquished in Asia, right at the time that Asia seems to be poised to dominate economically and demographically. Liberal democracy isn't making any inroads in Africa and Russia has certainly given it a firm no, with the Vysehrad states in Eastern Europe also turning away. Basically only Latin America is up for grabs at the moment and the results there seem mixed at best. We coul…

The pandemic and the gvt handouts are the only thing that crushed the yellow vests. Demographic dividends are a thing. Liberal, socialist democracies use them better other systems. I think in 20 years, when the demographic transition end in India, the regrets will be high and if there's no support from other economies, the effects will be 100 times worse than ex USSR countries, Portugal, Spain or Greece (European cou…

India is unlikely to reap any demographic dividends. Unemployment is increasing and jobs have been shrinking since 2015.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#123

Post by Goety »

naruvimama wrote: post #66
cptsmrk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, we've often failed to live up to our values. One of the baddest-ass diplomatic moments in modern history was in the 50s when India's UN ambassador read the US Declaration of Independence in protest of its support for colonial regimes in the name of anti-Communism. But the hypocrisy of the west in applying those values doesn't mean they aren't worthwhile or worth fighting for.

Which is precisely the argument. Exporting and enforcing values that you do not yourself follow. Do as I say not what I do.

The west is about to write the book on how to deal with the deterioration of democratic values.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#124

Post by rishav_sharan »

naruvimama wrote: post #22
rsj_hn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the timelines involved, I'd say it's more likely that not that Modi is following in the footsteps of Xi Jinping. In fact most of Asia is in the hands of some kind of ethno-nationalist leader, from Duterte in the Phillipines to Suga in Japan, Xi in China or Jae-In in S. Korea. Modi is not really exceptional when viewed on the scale of other asian leaders. But Asia has always had a much more ethno-nationalist ben…

[flagged]

Considering that these brown sahib had been voted in by the same masses previously, I am not sure what point are you making.

Populist/fascist leaders like ones in India's regime come and go. Trump isn't the president still. If you think BJP will be in power for the next 50 years, then I'd say you should check up on fascist history.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#125

Post by mybrid »

The sad part of this is that we've know these kinds of trends were going to happen since the advent of the computer and automation. Computing and automation leave the average physical and intellectual ability behind. Someone born in the last 20 years could be forgiven for thinking that Science Fiction is only about dystopian stories of despair. Why? Because one cornerstone of SciFi is that the average IQ is worth less every day and is being replaced by technology. Those left behind will revolt. This easily explains Trump's appeal. Average people are feeling more irrelevant ever day. Trump is proof that even the worst of con men can tap into that despair. Andrew Yang ran his Presidential campaign in part on this theme, but UBI does nothing for helping people feel relevant or in control of their lives. The title of this article could have easily been, "Silicon Valley thought the US was its future, now things have changed." The disaffected are only becoming more disaffected every day because those in the technological advancement industries don't care.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#126

Post by naruvimama »

random314 wrote: post #120
orwin wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you see any atheist kill someone because he was religious? Or even attack some believer for the sake of attacking? This is way to much strawman for me . And I did believe what you said in another post on Modi as governor, now i guess I'll have to check myself.

From his comment history, search for Pakistan. It's a flagged post. He is openly racist and hates Muslims. "Muslims have always been the perpetrators of unwarranted violence," This is why he votes for modi. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=naruvimama Development of gujarat under modi is a fig leaf for the underlying reason for voting for modi. The motivations are right wing religious ethno fascism. The others…

> He is openly racist and hates Muslims

Indian Muslims are the same race as Hindus.

I distrust Islam just like the vast majority of the world. Muslims are victims of Islam, especially Indian Muslims because it was never their choice.

There isn't a single muslim country to the west of India that has any minority rights.

An overwhelming 87% of Indian Muslim voted for the Muslim league and hence the creation of Pakistan.

That is political Islam and it has killed millions of Hindus in the past 70 years.

One big problem with Muslims is that they always think of themselves as victims but seem to have no remorse for the millions of kafirs they have killed.

I do not want India to turn into a Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria.

> Muslims have always been the perpetrators of unwarranted violence

That was in response to your mention of Gujarat. The whole incident started when Muslim mobs burnt alive 59 Hindu pilgrims including children.

Clearly they had planned for violence and were sufficiently armed.

This has always been the case with Muslims around the world. Start the violence and cry victim.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#127

Post by random314 »

naruvimama wrote: post #126
random314 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From his comment history, search for Pakistan. It's a flagged post. He is openly racist and hates Muslims. "Muslims have always been the perpetrators of unwarranted violence," This is why he votes for modi. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=naruvimama Development of gujarat under modi is a fig leaf for the underlying reason for voting for modi. The motivations are right wing religious ethno fascism. The others…

> He is openly racist and hates Muslims Indian Muslims are the same race as Hindus. I distrust Islam just like the vast majority of the world. Muslims are victims of Islam, especially Indian Muslims because it was never their choice. There isn't a single muslim country to the west of India that has any minority rights. An overwhelming 87% of Indian Muslim voted for the Muslim league and hence the creation of Pakistan…

I like how you have stated your beliefs simply and clearly. Let's not pretend that your vote for modi is based on some car factory.

Also, for your future reference.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_secularism#Secular...

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#128

Post by slake »

izacus wrote: post #24

This seems to be very related to the other article on first page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27488950 Seems like US tech companies were exporting US politics and values to India (whether by design or by simply forgetting that not all the world is US) and the government decided that doesn't fit their own goals. I see more of this starting to show up as US citizens demand that tech companies take active part…

This isn't just the government though. There's enough backing to the idea that Twitter especially applies very flawed moderation, suspension standards to voices on its platform. In the early days Twitter was a place for debate and discussion and hearing alternative viewpoints. That's eroded away and hence the outburst. Also I think Indians still hold the view that a corporate with its black box policies can't and shouldn't suppress the voices of democratically elected representatives. I think that's a recipe for disaster.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#129

Post by jaldhar »

tln750 wrote: post #115
jaldhar wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The neo-Hindu view of the Buddha is indeed misrepresentation. Buddha couldn’t have been a Hindu because “Hinduism” as they understand it simply didn’t exist at that time. But your view isn’t any better. 1. There is no reason to believe the Pali Tripitaka represents the authentic words or teachings of the Buddha. He would have spoken Magadhi as his mother tongue. Pali was a Western Prakrit and moreover a trade and lit…

The Pali Canon contains the kernel of the Buddha's Teaching. It is not difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff and arrive at the essence of what the Buddha taught. A guide on how to approach the discourses: https://suttacentral.net/general-guide-sujato Sujato addresses several claims in his essay, and has some helpful hints on the historical placement of the Buddhadhamma. The Buddha was not a social reformer -…

The Pali canon contains one sects idea of the kernel of Buddha’s teaching. It so happens that sect has survived to this day while many of its competitors did not. That does not make its claims any more valid. The site you quote itself says that it began to be redacted around 300+ years after Buddhas demise. By contrast the books of the New Testament were composed 40-100 years after Jesus’s death and even then scholars hotly contest how much were his actual words. All the prominent figures in late stage Indian Buddhism were Mahayanists of various stripes. They would certainly disagree that Pali texts were the kernel of the Buddhas teaching.

I am mystified as to what you think I’ve got wrong about karma. As you say Nirvana involves the cessation of karma. Jnana alone is its cause. This is the same as Advaita Vedanta (and several other darshanas.). The point of difference is what pragmatic concessions are to be given to those who cannot become monks. To be a Buddhist in ancient India was to be a monk. There were lay people who donated to the monks but they otherwise carried on their ancestral traditions. There was no specifically Buddhist way to be a layman until after the religion left India. In Smartism, to learn Advaita Vedanta and give up karma and become a monk is the highest goal but if you can’t, rituals and worldly life still have some positive worth. Vaishnavism, Shaivism, and Tantra were even more this-world oriented and in actual practice more egalitarian and accessible than Buddhism nevermind whatever rhetoric was put forth.

I don’t understand the distinction you are trying to make between sectarian division and philosophical difference. A philosophical difference is what makes a sect a sect no?

We agree that Buddha was not a Hindu. For exactly the same reasons we must say Buddha was not not a Hindu. The whole question anachronistically projects latter day concerns and concepts too far into the past. But was Buddhism (or is or could it be) Hinduism? That’s the real bone of contention anyway and its a much more ambiguous question. We could mention how Buddha is an avatar of Vishnu or Yoga borrows concepts from Mahayana or the wholesale adoption of Shaiva tantric concepts in Vajrayana. I personally like to compare with Jainism. It is just as old as Buddhism, heretical to Astikas for exactly the same reasons as Buddhism and yet thoroughly integrated into social structures, modes of worship, and literary traditions to the extent that the man in the street is not even aware that Jainism is anything more than another Hindu sect. I think that would have been the fate of Buddhism if it had survived to this day. And that’s the key. It went extinct a long time ago. So the correct answer to my question is: “we don’t know.”

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#130

Post by rishav_sharan »

notimrelakatos wrote: post #81
chewz wrote: post #20

OMG the world is shrinking for SV. As US gets deeper and deeper into its Cultural Revolution more and more countries with strong cultural identity do not follow and become more and more selective in adopting US model - China, Iran, Russia, India, Europe...

I'd rather see the culture that gave us the Ramayana, Mahabharata, Vedas, Upanishads, Algebra and many more outstanding creations have it's own way of doing capitalism, or whatever the heck they end up with, than having a another copy of the US, with more curry and funny accents. This new Americanism seems like the cultural incarnation of entropy, whose sole purpose is desertify culture itself.

That culture has been long gone for thousands of years. The current culture of anti-intellectualism, pseudo-nationalism and hatemongering will not take India to any forefront of world leadership.

The sooner we Indians stop living in the past and live in the present - and work for our future, the better.

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