California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate • Hacker News Board

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#121

Post by BatteryMountain » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

sergiotapia wrote: post #27

Doesn't california have a massive drug problem and literal armies of drug addicts shitting in the streets and harassing families and tax-payers? How will this help?

Not american, no dog in this fight, but I highly doubt the average "psychonaut" will be in the streets. Eating a few grams psilocybin would rather have the person rolling around in bed, talking to his pillow or have deep introspection, or zone out on the couch and watch cartoons, or play some musical instrument.

The image you mention are people who are legit in trouble and in need of help, they might be abusing substances, sometimes several types at once, they might be sleep deprived, dehydrated, confused and don't know what they are doing and need medical/psych help. They might be in the middle of psychosis (it's absolute hell). Taking meth then heroin then some weed then some more meth over a 3 day period will have anyone running around in the streets - people need to respect the power of these substances (or rather, the thin line between feeling normal and madness).

There is a massive difference between 5 friends in the woods consuming psilocybin, playing drums and staring at the clouds for 5 hours in peace, than people running around naked and losing their minds.

The real bad stuff: heroin, meth, other opiates, mixing drugs.

The semi safe: cannabis, mescaline, psilocybin (lsd, dmt, salvia = risk for average folk).

And then I'd totally recommend a calm, safe environment, preferably out in nature. Simple musical instruments to play with. People who you trust an can hold your hand if you get stuck. It's that simple. Don't do it in public, crowds, noisy places with too much lights (well maybe a music festival, but still avoid them) or do it with intentions of getting high or for fun - rather try to use them as tool to commune with your deeper consciousness and get aligned to it. It can also be worthwhile to consume them in a ceremonial/ritualistic setting with a shaman person that can help you navigate certain aspects of it. For your first few times don't do it alone.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#122

Post by 8note » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #23

Probably 95% of people can handle psychedelics. That last 5% are not going to handle psychedelics well. I'm talking about the people on Market and 6th with schizophrenia. If you give someone with schizophrenia mushrooms they will have a total break with reality and might not come back easily. This is going to make the street people of CA even that more crazy.

What do you mean by if?

I'd assume they're already on psychedelics regardless of whether they're legal or not.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#123

Post by SmooL » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 7:25 PM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #65

zucker42 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the area of the country with the biggest drug problem is Appalachia [1]. California is better than most states in terms of drug overdose deaths. And as others have pointed out, psychedelics aren't really the problematic drugs. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/drug_poisoning_mor...

If you have time I suggest watching the videos in this thread shot yesterday by Dr Shellenberger of Tom Wolf, a recovered SF addict, walking around in Venice beach Los Angeles and talking with Garry Featherstone, owner of Homeless Enterprise, who feeds the homeless in Venice Beach and works on the streets there. It is very revealing. https://twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/status/13998897983204433...

Wow, that was excellent, thank you for linking this

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#124

Post by heavyset_go » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 7:26 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #116

tomComb wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would go further and say that none of the addiction is related to psychedelics - AFAIK you can't get addicted to then. As with alcohol etc you can do stupid and dangerous things while on then, and you can have a very unpleasant experience but they are otherwise harmless.

> AFAIK you can't get addicted to then. Addiction is not necessarily physical. Pretty much anything which makes people feel good or different can trigger addictive behaviour e.g. gambling, video games, or shopping, all have related compulsive disorders which get more and more considered as addiction as time passes and studies increase (though only gambling addiction is formally recognised by the DSM at this point).

Psychedelic pharmacology pretty much ensures that the vast majority of people will not become physically addicted to the substances, as opposed to substances like nicotine, alcohol, opioids or amphetamines.

5-HT2A agonism induces a rapid tolerance, making it difficult to dose many times in a two week period. A second dose or more within that period will have vastly diminished returns.

Psychedelics can be addictive in the same way Magic: The Gathering can be addictive, but not so much in the same way that physically addictive drugs are.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#125

Post by tayo42 » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #101

tayo42 wrote: post #47

Pretty cool, I think they way we all talk about psychedelics and drugs in general is harmful and misleading. I guess we need baby steps but idk if social sharing is enough. A big problem with the current drug world is not getting clean and pure substances and in predictable doses. I didn't see anything about like lsd labs and stores or mdma production being allowed in the bill. Did i miss something about making highe…

All these drugs should just have their studied side effects listed on the back of the package like all the dangerous and deadly stuff on the shelves Decriminalizing, to me, is just having an industry tell you they don’t want to be regulated or illegal, and that’s absurd! A big step for research though!

Yeah I'm pretty interested in future research. It always bugs me how most harm reduction or drug "facts" are basically pseudo science that just gets repeated over and over with slight modifications from anecdotes

I'd really like to know if this is bullshit or not lol https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/what-is-wrong-with-the-...

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#126

Post by tayo42 » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 7:28 PM UTC

qntty wrote: post #111

tayo42 wrote: post #47

Pretty cool, I think they way we all talk about psychedelics and drugs in general is harmful and misleading. I guess we need baby steps but idk if social sharing is enough. A big problem with the current drug world is not getting clean and pure substances and in predictable doses. I didn't see anything about like lsd labs and stores or mdma production being allowed in the bill. Did i miss something about making highe…

It's not hard to get clean and pure mushrooms if you take the time to learn how to grow them, or if you have a friend that does.

Idk i found home growing mushrooms is basically another hobby to be invested. I tried it once, the final result was pretty weak, and I didn't get a lot for how much effort went into it.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#127

Post by adrr » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 7:29 PM UTC

smoldesu wrote: post #14

ravenstine wrote: post #6

I get LSD and psilocybin, but why ketamine? In either case, I feel like this shouldn't have tried to include ketamine since the perception of it might jeopardize the bill.

Different states are allowed to draw up different allowances, but Ketamine has shown significant promise in the realm of long-term depression treatment. I'd imagine this is mostly to allow for experimental treatments in that field to be allowed.

Ketamine is already legal for doctors to treat patients with and there are ketamine clinics in California.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#128

Post by 8note » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 7:30 PM UTC

takeda wrote: post #21

I hope this won't be similar to decriminalizing weed where people assumed it's also fine to drive while high :/

The problem you're highlighting is that driving is dangerous, more than anything else.

Limiting the speed cars can drive is a much better mitigation, along with better city design to avoid car use, and minizmize fast car use.

The approach of "what if the driver's attention is impaired by "

Has to be rehashed for every instance of and is never going to fix the root of the problem - that cars are dangerous

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#129

Post by systemvoltage » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 7:31 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #51

sergiotapia wrote: post #27

Doesn't california have a massive drug problem and literal armies of drug addicts shitting in the streets and harassing families and tax-payers? How will this help?

1. You seem to be confused about the significant amounts of homeless people[0] having been dumped into the state by various others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeless_dumping 2. Most people with addiction issues (whether cause or consequence of issues) are not users of psychedelics. 3. How about you explain how criminalizing drugs helps the situation? Because that's the regime under which you got the current situ…

Partially agree - issue may not be due to psychedelics, but it is irrefutable that California's woes are due to its policies. I will go ahead and say this is not just California issue, but west coast policies in general that have created crisis after crisis - that includes Seattle, Portland, SF and LA. It is time we allow criticism of these policies with an open mind.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#130

Post by hannasanarion » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 7:34 PM UTC

Morvan wrote: post #58

ticviking wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time when people call something "degenerate" it seems like they're making an argument based on the idea that progress depends on self-control and personal sovereignty. Everything I see labeled that way, psychedelics included, has a reputation of being either a cause of loss of self-control or a consequence of lacking self-control. If you want to be in the habit of understanding people who use words like t…

You're trying to reframe the problem around the people who call it out. That's a good way to distract from said problem but not a way to address it. That kind of drug usage is a manifestation of degeneracy, itself part of a bigger cultural trend. Fixing the symptoms (or rather, absorbing them into legality so they seem less noteworthy) won't get rid of the root cause. edit: to respond to greyface- below since I am no…

> to respond to greyface- below since I am not longer allowed to reply. what you seem to be hinting at amounts to reasoning by extremes, a trite fallacy

The word "degenerate" is reasoning by extremes. It signals puritanical zealotry from a palingenetic perspective.

Whatever glorious past you think society is de-generating from is a myth composed by people with rosy-eyed memories and an agenda that, were it not for the justifying myth, would be obviously absurd.