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Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

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Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#121

Post by ghoward »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #120
ghoward wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am talking about domestic travel, not international. During the hysteria, I believe either New York or Rhode Island restricted travel across those state borders, despite such restrictions being explicitly prohibited by the Constitution. So I am not making up a scenario. Also, by 2031 (if not already), COVID will be endemic. So no, I probably won't take the vaccine. But taking the vaccine at my age was not a good id…

Was anyone else talking about domestic travel? > Also, by 2031 (if not already), COVID will be endemic. So no, I probably won't take the vaccine. But taking the vaccine at my age was not a good idea anyway (in my opinion). I don't know what age you are, but you must not be talking statistically.

> Was anyone else talking about domestic travel?

No, no one else was talking about domestic travel, but I was. Because it's important to me, and because I can see how it will be lost easily. And it is a liberty that I have.

Also, what about being shut out of the economy? No one was talking about that either, but it's already happening, and I also don't want to lose that.

> I don't know what age you are, but you must not be talking statistically.

I am at an age where I could have kids. There is very little evidence that the vaccines do not affect the ability to have kids. So no, I am not talking statistically, but if I was, 99.97% of the people who get COVID in my age group do just fine. So statistically, the virus isn't very dangerous to me, while the vaccines are unknown. I'll go with the devil I know, thank you very much.

Also, your questions show that you have no good faith interest in engaging in healthy debate and instead wish to make me look bad. So this will be my last message to you. You can have the last word if you want.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#122

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

ghoward wrote: post #121
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was anyone else talking about domestic travel? > Also, by 2031 (if not already), COVID will be endemic. So no, I probably won't take the vaccine. But taking the vaccine at my age was not a good idea anyway (in my opinion). I don't know what age you are, but you must not be talking statistically.

> Was anyone else talking about domestic travel? No, no one else was talking about domestic travel, but I was. Because it's important to me, and because I can see how it will be lost easily. And it is a liberty that I have. Also, what about being shut out of the economy? No one was talking about that either, but it's already happening, and I also don't want to lose that. > I don't know what age you are, but you must…

> There is very little evidence that the vaccines do not affect the ability to have kids.

That's fine, my last word is simple - you're not assuming the null hypothesis with this. You're creating a list of bad things, for which you have no evidence, and assuming they could be true. In that case it could also very well be the case that somehow it causes benefits in fertility or some other effects. And it seems foolish to worry about the unobserved effects of the vaccine, especially given the huge sample size we currently have, and especially when there is currently research being done, based upon actual observations and not just unfounded conjecture, that COVID may be able to affect fertility.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#123

Post by xg15 »

zhdc1 wrote: post #32
m_st wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We Swiss people are also quite suspicious with this kind of documentation (Google Fichenaffäre / secret files scandal for reasons). To my understanding you will get this Covid certificate either through vaccination, after having had Covid-19 or after a negative test. So it's not like a central vaccine database or so. (Note that we had such a database called "Elektronischer Impfausweis" but it had to be taken down aft…

Americans are far more distrustful. The idea of registering with your local municipality is downright alien in the United States. At best, you're required to eventually update your drivers license when you switch states, which (depending on the state) is the equivalent of "maybe" updating your license and vehicle registration whenever you eventually get around to it. Compare that against moving between, say, Switzerl…

Meanwhile, Google doesn't just know which county you live in, they know the exact GPS location of your home and your office.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#124

Post by Pyramus »

ghoward wrote: post #107
guitarbill wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because saying "Adequate testing takes about a decade" is kinda BS - maybe in poster's opinion that's what "adequate" means. Realistically, the vaccine just has to be safer than getting Covid and it's long-term effects. Because we've seen in most Western nations that not getting Covid doesn't work in general. > I will never trust US Health Authorities anymore It's a shame some of their mistakes have eroded trus…

If we don't know the long-term effects of the vaccines, we don't know if they are actually better than COVID and its long-term effects.

Don't forget Covid/SARS-Cov-2 is only 6 months older than the vaccines: Nov-2019 vs Apr-2020.

Every bit of data that we have today about the safety profile of the vaccines vs Covid indicates that for the majority of people vaccines are orders of magnitude (think 100-10000x) safer than Covid.

Even when they aren't, e.g. children or AZ & young women, we are talking about super small risks similar to an average car ride.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#125

Post by supertrope »

xg15 wrote: post #123
zhdc1 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are far more distrustful. The idea of registering with your local municipality is downright alien in the United States. At best, you're required to eventually update your drivers license when you switch states, which (depending on the state) is the equivalent of "maybe" updating your license and vehicle registration whenever you eventually get around to it. Compare that against moving between, say, Switzerl…

Meanwhile, Google doesn't just know which county you live in, they know the exact GPS location of your home and your office.

Google does not have the power to imprison you or seize your assets. (However their databases are a juicy resource for state functionaries).

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#126

Post by supertrope »

hervature wrote: post #93
CaptainZapp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If more states ban covid-passports, I wonder if the EU would rather not have tourists than allow visitations. That's certainly a possibility if safety really is a concern. But I'd wager that the average American anti Covid fanatic (the sort: Masks are fascism! It's like what the nazis did with the jews!) is not really the kind of person travelling the world. I don't think that others, who want to travel the world r…

As someone who has my yellow vaccine passport from the WHO because I travel to South America, I disagree with this sentiment. I view this move by the EU more akin to TSA than the yellow fever vaccine. I believe it will turn into strictly an annoyance to travelers. The premise of TSA was straightforward response to a bad thing that occurred and turned into a useless beast and these programs appear to have the same fin…

MMR TDaP smallpox polio vaccines have been so successful that people don’t worry about these fearsome diseases. An ironic victim of their own success.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#127

Post by supertrope »

RspecMAuthortah wrote: post #92
slumdev wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd wager that the average American anti Covid fanatic (the sort: Masks are fascism! It's like what the nazis did with the jews!) is not really the kind of person travelling the world. You'd be wrong. I've received more vaccines than 99.99% of the people you meet. I visit the doctor and get every jab that's recommended before every international trip (along with documentation for my prescriptions in case I'm questi…

Not sure why you are downvoted. Health officials in US have done a phenomenal job showing how incompetent they were during this crisis. From initial downplay, then the mask fiasco, then trying to covering up the lab leak hypothesis, and of course politicizing the vaccine release timeline, they have blood on their hands. Then to say we need to blindly trust them on what they are saying on safety profile of the vaccine…

There were big mistakes but attributing malice and rejecting experts is just jumping out of the pan and into the fire.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#128

Post by supertrope »

Pyramus wrote: post #124
ghoward wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we don't know the long-term effects of the vaccines, we don't know if they are actually better than COVID and its long-term effects.

Don't forget Covid/SARS-Cov-2 is only 6 months older than the vaccines: Nov-2019 vs Apr-2020. Every bit of data that we have today about the safety profile of the vaccines vs Covid indicates that for the majority of people vaccines are orders of magnitude (think 100-10000x) safer than Covid. Even when they aren't, e.g. children or AZ & young women, we are talking about super small risks similar to an average car ride…

People consider risk emotionally. A Facebook post claiming their uncle’s roommate’s sister died of a JNJ blot clot (1 in a million) gets more eyeballs than yesterday’s hundreds of COVID-19 fatalities (hundreds of times the risk!)

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#129

Post by supertrope »

ghoward wrote: post #107
guitarbill wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because saying "Adequate testing takes about a decade" is kinda BS - maybe in poster's opinion that's what "adequate" means. Realistically, the vaccine just has to be safer than getting Covid and it's long-term effects. Because we've seen in most Western nations that not getting Covid doesn't work in general. > I will never trust US Health Authorities anymore It's a shame some of their mistakes have eroded trus…

If we don't know the long-term effects of the vaccines, we don't know if they are actually better than COVID and its long-term effects.

I’m not a betting man but a one in a million chance of dying of a Jannsen shot looks good in comparison with COVID-19’s 300 per million(1). Lightning is about 0.3 million. Driving or riding a car is 100 per million.

(1)Death rate much higher in hotspots after hospitals are overwhelmed.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#130

Post by ghoward »

supertrope wrote: post #129
ghoward wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we don't know the long-term effects of the vaccines, we don't know if they are actually better than COVID and its long-term effects.

I’m not a betting man but a one in a million chance of dying of a Jannsen shot looks good in comparison with COVID-19’s 300 per million(1). Lightning is about 0.3 million. Driving or riding a car is 100 per million. (1)Death rate much higher in hotspots after hospitals are overwhelmed.

I'm not a betting man, but it looks like the chance of dying from the shot might actually be higher than 1 in a million. And we don't yet know how high it is, nor will we, I suspect.
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