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On Smoking

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Re: On Smoking

#121

Post by tialaramex »

nine_k wrote: post #97
TchoBeer wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol is also addictive expensive and bad for you, and yet no one asks why anyone would drink alcohol

To get physiologically addicted to alcohol, one has to drink heavily every day for a year or so. Few people, especially people with college education, do that. One can drink a glass of wine or a cocktail every weekend for life, and form no addiction at all. Such a person can go dry for weeks or months, without any adverse effects. Nicotine forms a physiological addiction much faster, and then the addict has to have a…

One of my friends gave up smoking for exactly a year on a whim, celebrated his success with a cigar, I think largely to rub it in the faces of people who struggled to quit - after a few months smoking again he packed it in permanently. So it doesn't have a strong hold on everybody. A few of my friends reduced their smoking to just a cigar once in a while, others moved to vaping, it is disheartening that then going from vaping to nothing seems to be not really a thing, but at least the vaping doesn't smell atrocious and seems less immediately likely to kill them.

Re: On Smoking

#122

Post by rkk3 »

defaultname wrote: post #103
TchoBeer wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol is also addictive expensive and bad for you, and yet no one asks why anyone would drink alcohol

Smoking is magnitudes more addictive than alcohol. Regardless, a lot of people do ask why anyone would drink alcohol, given that it offers up an enormous array of detrimental health effects, the possibility of addiction and social troubles (DUI, violence, etc), and as a mental "holiday" altered state is an incredibly poor mechanism. Alcohol hangs around because it was accessible in earlier eras. There will come a tim…

> Smoking is magnitudes more addictive than alcohol.

No it is not magnitudes more addictive. Alcohol is extremely addictive, 1 in 12 Adults in the US has an alcohol problem [1] and withdrawal can literally kill you, unlike nicotine.

1. https://www.ncadd.org/about-addiction/alcohol

Re: On Smoking

#123

Post by calebm »

"The Buddhists think you don’t quit addictions, you become a new person who isn’t an addict." - this really resonates with me. Don't say "I should do better" - change who you are and what you want will change.

Re: On Smoking

#124

Post by sulam »

I've never smoked (thanks mom for the negative example), but reading Atomic Habits made something about it and other habits clear to me: habits are part of your identity. The best/strongest way to start or end a habit is to convince yourself you are no longer that person. Not "I'm trying to exercise more." I am someone who exercises. Not "I'm trying to stop smoking." I am not a smoker.

This is really hard with smoking because there are so many cues that are tied to it. I recommend the book for some help, it has helped me be a much better version of myself.

Re: On Smoking

#125

Post by sillysaurusx »

deesep wrote: post #86

I started smoking when i went to study in China. Someone gifted me an expensive brand of cigarette, and I kept it hidden in a drawer for two weeks as I didn't smoke. One very cold day with no where to go and nothing to do, I took the pack out and lit one stick. My did it have a lovely scent. The heat it created inside me was also soothing. It took me about a week and half to finish the pack of 21 cigs. I couldn't aff…

Related to this, a lot of the reason smokers around me smoke is to just go outside. It’s an excuse to hang out on the porch. You might think that such a societal excuse isn’t needed, but it’s a powerful force.

Re: On Smoking

#126

Post by winrid »

murat131 wrote: post #3

The thing about smoking is that when you quit smoking you quit it every day. Imagine a light switch on the wall. You turn it off by quitting smoking and you can always go back at a desperate time for instance and turn it on. And some time later off again. Smoking your first cigarette implants that light switch on your mind and you can't make it go away. Since you know how it makes you feel good when the switch is on,…

I tried a cigarette like 8 years ago and I still feel the lure sometimes, very odd.

Re: On Smoking

#127

Post by michaelmrose »

defaultname wrote: post #103
TchoBeer wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol is also addictive expensive and bad for you, and yet no one asks why anyone would drink alcohol

Smoking is magnitudes more addictive than alcohol. Regardless, a lot of people do ask why anyone would drink alcohol, given that it offers up an enormous array of detrimental health effects, the possibility of addiction and social troubles (DUI, violence, etc), and as a mental "holiday" altered state is an incredibly poor mechanism. Alcohol hangs around because it was accessible in earlier eras. There will come a tim…

Virtually everyone who smokes for any reasonable duration will become addicted and almost all do so enough to substantially effect their health and longevity whether they know it or not. Most of the people who consume alcohol do so casually and not to excess.

Essentially the chance of dying in a given year due to alcohol if this were anything like a random chance is around 1 in 2000 whereas the chance of dying from smoking is around 1 in 77.

This is something like the difference in danger in riding a motorcycle 100 miles and base jumping.

Of course its not random at all whereas taking up smoking is extremely likely to result in becoming a life long smoker and suffering the average ill effects its perfectly possible for most people to enjoy a sane amount of alcohol infrequently.

Consumption of intoxicants of some variety seems to have been a feature of humanity for the entirety of human history. The expulsion of smoker from reasonable things to be in human society has only happened after we realized its predictable massive effect on human health. There just will never be the same impetus with alcohol.

Re: On Smoking

#128

Post by slim »

deesep wrote: post #86

I started smoking when i went to study in China. Someone gifted me an expensive brand of cigarette, and I kept it hidden in a drawer for two weeks as I didn't smoke. One very cold day with no where to go and nothing to do, I took the pack out and lit one stick. My did it have a lovely scent. The heat it created inside me was also soothing. It took me about a week and half to finish the pack of 21 cigs. I couldn't aff…

I quit smoking in 2014. Before that, when traveling, I had a habit of smoking local brands. So when I traveled to Beijing, I picked a brand named Baysan because I saw locals smoking it. It had a beautiful package, it was high quality. When traveled back home, I had a commute in Stuttgart. So I got to a smoking area, took a cigarette from that Baysan box and it was like smoking burning wood. I coughed a lot and threw away the box. I think those cigarettes were bearable because of the pollution level in Beijing. Most days you can't see the horizon.

Re: On Smoking

#129

Post by naturalauction »

TameAntelope wrote: post #23
Scarbutt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking your first cigarette implants that light switch on your mind I don't think that's true in general, at least not for me or many of my friends. We never got hooked. Please don't try though ;)

My experience has been similar. I've smoked cigarettes probably ~12 times in my life, maybe up to 20 if you count cigars, but I've never felt like I need one or am in any way compelled to continue smoking on my own. Always, always while drinking. Maybe that helps isolate the context?

On the flip side - I've smoked probably more than 12 times but definitely less than 50. Also only while drinking. I definitely have cravings every once in a while (though generally mood dependent) even when I'm not drinking. I haven't been properly out drinking in a year or more (COVID) but it definitely seems like the switch has been flipped for me.
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