“Computer science is not about computers” • Hacker News Board

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#121

Post by kaba0 » Sun, May 30, 2021, 8:56 AM UTC

jhgb wrote: post #110

bmitc wrote: post #60

And calculus has nothing to do with pebbles or counting. So what? Also, isn’t it easiest to think of a computer as an abstract concept that could both represent a physical device and the abstract computer? Computation needs a computer, whether real or abstract. Lastly, I think science is the more “wrong” word in the name.

> And calculus has nothing to do with pebbles or counting. So what? Coincidentally, in my native tongue, we regularly don't use "calculus" as a term for mathematical analysis any more than we use "computer science" for informatics.

As per Paul Halmos one can’t really write a good calculus book as taught in US schools, since there is no single subject corresponding to calculus. One needs to study series, (and other subjects I can’t really list now).

I’m not sure which of his books I read it in..

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#122

Post by ant6n » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:11 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #21

"Computer science was a fraud. It always had been. It was the only branch of science ever named after a gadget. He and his colleagues were basically no better than gizmo freaks. Now physics, that was true science. Nobody ever called physics “lever science” or “billiard ball science.“ The fatal error in computer science was that it modeled complex systems without truly understanding them. Computers simulated complexit…

Computer science is the study of computing things. In fact, virtually all of math used to be about the study of computing things, until about 200-300 years ago, when the study of mathematical structure branched of the science of computing things.

Computer science has existed for thousands of years, the naming has just been a bit off.

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#123

Post by jpswade » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:20 AM UTC

Back before computer systems, computers were people who did calculations. It’s maths at its core.

Computers today are surely then just applied computer science.

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#124

Post by jhgb » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:35 AM UTC

kaba0 wrote: post #121

jhgb wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And calculus has nothing to do with pebbles or counting. So what? Coincidentally, in my native tongue, we regularly don't use "calculus" as a term for mathematical analysis any more than we use "computer science" for informatics.

As per Paul Halmos one can’t really write a good calculus book as taught in US schools, since there is no single subject corresponding to calculus. One needs to study series, (and other subjects I can’t really list now). I’m not sure which of his books I read it in..

I was thoroughly confused when I found out how the US high school math curriculum is structured. To this day I can't remember what the hell is "precalculus". In my country I had separate textbooks on: functions; equations and inequalities; sequences and series; planimetry; stereometry; goniometry; analytical geometry; combinatorics, statistics and probability; complex numbers; mathematical analysis. Every time I refresh my knowledge on what "precalculus" is I promptly forget it again because it doesn't correspond to any of the fields that we were taught and that I'm used to think in terms of.

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#125

Post by gorgoiler » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:36 AM UTC

mxscho wrote: post #29

In Europe, "Computer Science" is translated with a word that is a mix of "information" and "mathematics". University course names are: > [...] informatique (French), Informatik (German), informatica (Italian, Dutch), informática (Spanish, Portuguese), informatika (Slavic languages and Hungarian) or pliroforiki (πληροφορική, which means informatics) in Greek. Similar words have also been adopted in the UK (as in the S…

These words overlap with IT too much. I’m suspicious that they refer to Computer Science specifically, but please prove me wrong.

I always find it slightly irritating that my learned peers from the Information Technology team — they who rigorously study the practice of managing Jira installations, Windows 10 upgrades, finite Active Directory domains, and the long term effects of CISCO certifications — have land grabbed the English word Information.

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#126

Post by bidirectional » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:45 AM UTC

vishnugupta wrote: post #86

divbzero wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the best ways to fill in those gaps? I bet many of us never enjoyed those classes in school, or even had a traditional computing education.

I suggest a combination of theory (videos/books/papers) and practice. For practice; I highly recommend learning Haskell. If you are new to functional programming then learning Haskell is challenging and frustrating but as with any new topic the key is to not give up but keep probing. A good recent development is lot of mainstream languages are beginning to include functional paradigms such as lambda, closures etc., F…

That post is by a completely different Bartosz.

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#127

Post by bidirectional » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:48 AM UTC

the__alchemist wrote: post #44

As someone who hasn't taken CS classes, I was surprised to learn that what I'd assumed was CS is classified as Electrical Engineering (Designing processors, ICs etc), and Physics (concepts like reversible computing, quantum computing, the works of Turing, Feynman, and Shannon.) I still don't have a grasp on what characterizes CS.

The works of Turing are absolutely not physics.

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#128

Post by anthk » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:51 AM UTC

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #82

js8 wrote: post #73

My view is quite unconventional, but I believe, computer science is a branch of mathematics that deals with large but finite structures (so they need an algorithmic description). Compare with most of "legacy" mathematics, which studies countable structures (so the description can use arbitrary series). Of course, there are larger sets, but they mostly serve as a theater (just like countable infinity is just a theater…

Yes. Indeed in much of the world outside the USA there isn't even such a label as "computer science"; the stuff that's taught as "computer science" in the USA is taught under some sort of "math" label.

In Spanish it' s "Ingeniería informática" (Informatics engineering), you would call it CS Engineering.

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#129

Post by anthk » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:55 AM UTC

huachimingo wrote: post #48

mxscho wrote: post #29

In Europe, "Computer Science" is translated with a word that is a mix of "information" and "mathematics". University course names are: > [...] informatique (French), Informatik (German), informatica (Italian, Dutch), informática (Spanish, Portuguese), informatika (Slavic languages and Hungarian) or pliroforiki (πληροφορική, which means informatics) in Greek. Similar words have also been adopted in the UK (as in the S…

Wait a moment, the casual etimology of that word suggests (at least in spanish) a profession or a science, not "the sum of math and information" per se. That same suffix, -atica, is also applied in "the mathematic" as the person (-atic) and "The Mathematics" as the science (el Matemático, las Matemáticas). So lets say that you are a guy from two centuries ago. Someone tells you "this guy has studied informatics, he i…

The computer term in Spain came from the French "ordinateur".

Ordenar has two meanings in Spanish:

- To command someone

- To sort

Both are related. In order to sort some set, you need order. And rules. Thus, "ordenador" has a lot of sense.

But if I was some guy from the 50's I'd translate computer science as "informática electrónica". (Electronic Informatics).

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#130

Post by anthk » Sun, May 30, 2021, 10:06 AM UTC

visarga wrote: post #72

mxscho wrote: post #29

In Europe, "Computer Science" is translated with a word that is a mix of "information" and "mathematics". University course names are: > [...] informatique (French), Informatik (German), informatica (Italian, Dutch), informática (Spanish, Portuguese), informatika (Slavic languages and Hungarian) or pliroforiki (πληροφορική, which means informatics) in Greek. Similar words have also been adopted in the UK (as in the S…

In Romania the top higher education institution in CS is called "Automatics" emphasizing the applications.

In my country that would be related to "automatismos". Thus, industrial automatization, control engineering, automatic theorem demonstrations and so on. Self regulated machines.