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Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

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Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#121

Post by hedora »

mediaman wrote: post #91

There is a lot of misleading and false statements in this article. They claim plastic recycling doesn't work. It's true that most plastic isn't recycled, but that's because of lackluster government involvement, not some technological barrier. British Columbia has the most sophisticated recycling equipment in North America. Two plants there first use lasers to identify different types of plastic (PP, HDPE, PET, etc) i…

We should greatly reduce fishing. This would also help human reduce trafficking, since international fishing boats are often run with slave labor.

As for taxing the containers: I think a market based approach would be better. Regardless of what you use in your packaging, you have to pay for it “cradle to grave”. Companies could use whatever packaging they prefer, on the condition that they recapture 100% of the waste, and are carbon / landfill neutral.

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#122

Post by perl4ever »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #111
userbinator wrote: post #99

"toxic"? My BS detector is off the scale on that one. Plastics are used precisely because they are inert and nonreactive. If you burn them you can definitely create toxins, but then why not declare wood toxic too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_disruptor Chemically pure hydrocarbon polymers may be inert and generally nonreactive, however pure polymers like nylon or polyester are virtually useless. Plastics only become useful when they're mixed with a vast array of plasticizers, conditioners, chain extenders and other industrial chemicals. And those chemicals absolutely leach out of the materials we laypeople refer to…

I'm not an expert or a chemist, but I have the impression that the leaching of chemicals from plastics should generally be in proportion to how soft and flexible they are. The first thing that comes to mind as full of "squishy" plastics is a typical automobile today, hence the "new car smell". People are also conditioned to think that more soft plastics means higher quality.

But clothes and other things that don't smell and aren't squeezable would seem on the face of it to be unlikely hazards. We've got built in chemoreceptors, so why be paranoid as though we didn't?

Are you aware of or concerned about PVC piping widely used for plumbing? Do you know of any practical plans for eliminating it?

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#123

Post by wernercd »

hedora wrote: post #121
mediaman wrote: post #91

There is a lot of misleading and false statements in this article. They claim plastic recycling doesn't work. It's true that most plastic isn't recycled, but that's because of lackluster government involvement, not some technological barrier. British Columbia has the most sophisticated recycling equipment in North America. Two plants there first use lasers to identify different types of plastic (PP, HDPE, PET, etc) i…

We should greatly reduce fishing. This would also help human reduce trafficking, since international fishing boats are often run with slave labor. As for taxing the containers: I think a market based approach would be better. Regardless of what you use in your packaging, you have to pay for it “cradle to grave”. Companies could use whatever packaging they prefer, on the condition that they recapture 100% of the waste…

> often run with slave labor

Can that be an excuse to stop any industry? Might as well stop selling phones, books, shoes, clothes and... really any industry. I'm sure they can all be traced back to "slave labor" somewhere.

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#124

Post by kibwen »

dataflow wrote: post #13

It's such a pleasant surprise to me how effectively and quickly people have become concerned about this issue. The recent WWF report came out less than 2 years ago [1]. Microplastics were obviously known for a long time, but that's when conversations about microplastics re-ignited. And now we can see an entire country declaring plastics toxic and restricting them. If you'd asked me an hour ago, I'd have predicted it'…

Environmental action can be taken relatively quickly when nation-state-level corporate interests aren't funding campaigns to oppose it. The premier example is the banning of CFCs in the 1980s in defense of the ozone layer:

"The discovery of the hole [over Antarctica] was evidence that the magnitude of the problem was far greater than scientists had originally predicted. International alarm at the ozone layer’s thinning led to unprecedented multilateral action to ban the dangerous chemicals that were responsible for its deterioration – chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). By 1987, just two years after the hole was discovered, an international treaty was in place that cut the use of CFCs in half. Three years later in 1990, the Montreal Protocol was strengthened to ban the use of CFCs altogether in industrialised countries by the year 2000 and by the year 2010 in developing countries. Today, the use of CFCs is outlawed by 197 countries around the world and scientists concur that the ozone layer is slowly recovering as a result."

https://www.rapidtransition.org/stories/back-from-the-brink-...

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#125

Post by perl4ever »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #106
908B64B197 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the ones that put in place protectionist measures to prevent their trading partners and allies from buying vaccines from them? Citation needed? There are no, as far as I'm aware of, any trade restrictions on vaccines being shipped to Canada from the United States. The Trump administration simply invested earlier in promising vaccines, and therefore secured the first deliveries. Canada decided not to do so, and…

https://financialpost.com/news/economy/biden-uses-trumps-ame... Trump enacted controls (used the US Defense Production Act) which prevented manufacturers from exporting until all domestic orders were fulfilled. It was questionable whether it was enforceable, but manufacturers have followed it. Biden has continued this policy. Even to the point of hoarding vaccines not yet approved in the US (AstraZeneca) though they…

>hoarding vaccines

If you have any prescription meds, check who it's made by and where it was manufactured.

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#126

Post by pfdietz »

throwawayboise wrote: post #120
pfdietz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rubber is a plastic. As for polyester, what do you think PET plastic is? I will add that a weathered component of tire rubber has recently been identified as causing mass death of salmon when it washes off into streams.

The fish-killing is caused by an added chemical that acts as a sunscreen. It increases the UV resistance of the rubber, thus prolonging tire life. It isn't the rubber itself that is the problem, at least in that example.

I think it's fair to charge the responsibility of the additive to the material that it's included in. It would not have been included if it didn't serve a purpose of enabling the use of that material.

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#127

Post by perl4ever »

lstamour wrote: post #41
galangalalgol wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a good list of what things we can reasonably replace? As I'm typing this I wonder what we would use for shock absorbant things like phone cases or water proof seals like cv boots on car suspensions. Edit:. Looking around, electrical insulation, seals, and shock absorbers are the three things that I cant think of a good replacement for. Some seals like for weather proofing you could use spring bronze.

Anything that can be made from paper, should be. Primarily bags, shipping containers, product packaging, etc. I've seen Amazon replace plastic bubble wrap with paper-based bubble wrap, for example. They use really fine bits of paper and presumably glue to create the "bubbles". Instead of using plastic to wrap shipping containers, you could use a more re-usable material. Or perhaps we could come up with cardboard "rin…

I wonder if tiny bits of solidified glue (plus paper, wood fibers, etc) in the environment are much better than tiny bits of plastic?

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#128

Post by cmrdporcupine »

908B64B197 wrote: post #112
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://financialpost.com/news/economy/biden-uses-trumps-ame... Trump enacted controls (used the US Defense Production Act) which prevented manufacturers from exporting until all domestic orders were fulfilled. It was questionable whether it was enforceable, but manufacturers have followed it. Biden has continued this policy. Even to the point of hoarding vaccines not yet approved in the US (AstraZeneca) though they…

Reading the articles, suppliers are simply delivering the doses in the order they were bought. There's no "evil export restrictions". Other countries simply had to invest earlier, when it was more risky to do so, if they wanted to be the first to get doses.

You didn't read then, it clearly states in the articles (and many others you can google) that the defense production act (or rather the threat of it) and executive order required manufacturers to prioritize domestic orders over exports. To this day manufacturers in the US are still not exporting their supply. What date you put your order in doesn't matter if the supplier isn't allowed to provide it to you until later -- so we didn't order from the US because at that point Trump made it clear we wouldn't be getting any from them. So Pfizer supplied us from Belgium.

FWIW Canada announced their order of the Pfizer vaccine August 5th. The US on July 22nd. Are you seriously trying to suggest that two weeks is the key decider here? Nonsense.

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-vaccines-...

And an executive order was signed later to make it clear, these vaccines were for America First (despite the R&D on them being done in Europe)

"Trump made his remarks just before signing an executive order intended to ensure that priority access for COVID-19 vaccines procured by the U.S. government is given to the American people before assisting other nations."

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#129

Post by dukeofdoom »

Things taste better from a glass bottle. Which is how most drinks would be sold. The only downside was broken glass everywhere. Not uncommon for kids getting serious cuts just playing in the neighbourhood couple times a year. Sometimes main arteries, and death was a possibility.

Re: Canada declares plastics toxic, paving the way for restrictions

#130

Post by cmrdporcupine »

perl4ever wrote: post #125
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://financialpost.com/news/economy/biden-uses-trumps-ame... Trump enacted controls (used the US Defense Production Act) which prevented manufacturers from exporting until all domestic orders were fulfilled. It was questionable whether it was enforceable, but manufacturers have followed it. Biden has continued this policy. Even to the point of hoarding vaccines not yet approved in the US (AstraZeneca) though they…

>hoarding vaccines If you have any prescription meds, check who it's made by and where it was manufactured.

I just did, and they're generics made here in Canada.

I'm not sure what your point is meant to be, but I'll just mention that the main COVID vaccines (other than Moderna) all had their research and development in the EU.

BioNTech is in fact headquartered in the town my father is from (Mainz, Germany).

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