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Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

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Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#121

Post by routerl »

pdpi wrote: post #26

As a non-native speaker, one fascinating phenomenon for me is the flip side to Uncleftish Beholding[1]. Many latinate words are considered more sophisticated, or fancier in general, than germanic words. Because I'm a native speaker of a Romance language, those are precisely the words that I reach for naturally, because they're familiar. What follows is that, past a certain threshold where your English is good enough,…

Yeah, I've had the same experience, but I've really had to resist that instinct, to avoid sounding too pompous.

E.g. "ameliorate" comes more naturally to the tip of my tongue than "improve", but it's almost never a better word to use.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#122

Post by Bayart »

aikinai wrote: post #78
pdpi wrote: post #26

As a non-native speaker, one fascinating phenomenon for me is the flip side to Uncleftish Beholding[1]. Many latinate words are considered more sophisticated, or fancier in general, than germanic words. Because I'm a native speaker of a Romance language, those are precisely the words that I reach for naturally, because they're familiar. What follows is that, past a certain threshold where your English is good enough,…

Japanese is similar. Chinese-origin words usually sound more sophisticated than pure Japanese words.

The dynamic between Chinese and Japanese/Korean/Vietnamese in East Asia is very similar to the one between French and English, or more broadly Latin/Greek and all European languages. It's a good example to use for both sides (whether it is Easterners learning European languages or Westerners leaning East-Asian ones).

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#123

Post by lisper »

routerl wrote: post #121
pdpi wrote: post #26

As a non-native speaker, one fascinating phenomenon for me is the flip side to Uncleftish Beholding[1]. Many latinate words are considered more sophisticated, or fancier in general, than germanic words. Because I'm a native speaker of a Romance language, those are precisely the words that I reach for naturally, because they're familiar. What follows is that, past a certain threshold where your English is good enough,…

Yeah, I've had the same experience, but I've really had to resist that instinct, to avoid sounding too pompous. E.g. "ameliorate" comes more naturally to the tip of my tongue than "improve", but it's almost never a better word to use.

I emigrated to the US at age five from Germany and learned a lot of my English from Peanuts comics. One of the words I learned from that strip was "incidentally" which I used for years before someone told me about "by the way".

I got beat up a lot too.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#124

Post by etripe »

mariodiana wrote: post #111
pta2002 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with performant? (Non-native speaker here)

It's a neologism. Some people love it. (Actually, it seems like a lot of people do.) To others however, it strikes the ear as awkward sounding. I wouldn't say there's anything "wrong" about it. It's a matter of taste. It's a bit of a pet peeve for some of us. I bought a book a couple of years ago: iOS and macOS Performance Tuning. I took note that the author had not used the word "performant" even once in the book's…

Additionally, it might be cross-pollination from Germanic languages, which I think all have the word.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#125

Post by ghaff »

biztos wrote: post #89
heurisko wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And there are dialects that are pretty much incomprehensible to people who grew up in the mainstream dialect (true of many other languages as well) I think there are differences in accent, but I don't recognise anywhere as being "pretty much incomprehensible". I speak "standard" German as a foreigner, and have definitely found dialects that are "pretty much incomprehensible". I haven't found differences to such a d…

If you mean in English, I would say look to the poorer corners of blighty, or deep enough into Australia, and you may find what you need. Or, if you're in Los Angeles and white, ride the bus from Santa Monica to DTLA on any given weekend and just listen to people talk: that's English just as sure as mine is, but I get maybe half. (Also, is Scots not a dialect of English? I'm not sure -- a mix at the very least. Great…

The US mostly doesn't really have true dialects but there can be a fair bit of localized slang in some groups. And some accents, especially heavy rural Southern accents, can be tough especially for a non-native speaker.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#126

Post by not2b »

The word "prepone" is commonly used in Indian English, with the obvious meaning. On my last trip to Noida (near Delhi) the manager I was visiting saw how jet lagged I was and asked if they should "prepone my cab" (act the driver to come early to take me back to my hotel).

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#127

Post by egypturnash »

sandworm101 wrote: post #36
prvc wrote: post #12

As a Commonwealth inhabitant, having to deal with a multitude of formalized language variants, each with a small number of differences in orthography and vocabulary, strikes me as a useless waste of energy. Difference and local particularity for its own sake may please the odd local jingoist, but it is simpler to simply take the mother version to be definitive.

Like when I committed that greatest of Canadian sins: using the work 'labour' in a document read by an American client. The reaction was ridiculous. Or the hilarious situation I had at a legal conference. I thought one of my right-wing US friends had gone totally racist. He was complaining about all the new "turbins" he was seeing while driving to the conference. I thought he meant turban , but that's just how Americ…

That’s how some Americans say “turbine”. I’ve never heard it said that way but apparently this is mostly used by (older?) people from the Midwest, which certainly fits with your friend being right-wing.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#128

Post by sudosteph »

mariodiana wrote: post #48

I can't fault Indians for "prepone" when so many of my fellow programmers say "performant."

I'm just a fan of all forms of linguistic innovation. Language is a tool - so long as you're being understood, you're doing it right.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#129

Post by Bayart »

heurisko wrote: post #49
biztos wrote: post #29

I'm a native English speaker who's lived in other countries a lot and speaks three languages, now trying to learn a fourth. The weirdness of "English" is something I think about often. For starters, you have to live in it before you can really speak it. And our spelling is the least rational, least consistent thing I've ever seen. In addition to the weird way we spell a lot of things, many of the sounds are not prono…

> And there are dialects that are pretty much incomprehensible to people who grew up in the mainstream dialect (true of many other languages as well) I think there are differences in accent, but I don't recognise anywhere as being "pretty much incomprehensible". I speak "standard" German as a foreigner, and have definitely found dialects that are "pretty much incomprehensible". I haven't found differences to such a d…

What English speakers refer to as dialects is milder than what other languages do, as English wiped all of its actual dialects out pretty early on. On the other hand, what's called in German a dialect might often be considered a language by linguists.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#130

Post by mitchdoogle »

prvc wrote: post #12

As a Commonwealth inhabitant, having to deal with a multitude of formalized language variants, each with a small number of differences in orthography and vocabulary, strikes me as a useless waste of energy. Difference and local particularity for its own sake may please the odd local jingoist, but it is simpler to simply take the mother version to be definitive.

Language has never worked like that. It's always going to be a changing thing, with branches that extend out until what was one language becomes two or more distinct languages.
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