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Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

reuters.com

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Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#121

Post by tippytippytango »

jmacd wrote: post #11

As an outside observer, who has no crypto holdings at all, but is very deeply invested in the public stock market with a heavy weight on technology stocks... this doesn't look like a crash to me at all. It just looks like some steam being let off and old investors cash out and new investors get more comfortable with how much and where to invest. I consider crypto currency as it is to be an elaborate Ponzi scheme (per…

Stocks are a big Ponzi scheme too. Most people buying stocks aren’t interested in buying cash flow like stocks were meant to provide. People want capital gains. You only get capital gains when there’s a greater fool.

I’m not against owning stocks. I’m just as concentrated as you. But, let’s not confuse luck and genius. We are just hoping to be the one that gets out before the music stops.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#122

Post by lanstin »

fny wrote: post #41
coldcode wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But at least gold has some inherent value, crypto is just math that is worth whatever the buyers/sellers think it should be. Stock in a company that stays in business will never go to zero as the company always has some value due to having revenue, but crypto has no real world floor (though unlikely to actually get to zero since someone will always buy).

Gold does not have inherent value either. It's price is determined purely by a market and there are no other pricing mechanisms. You can't use discounted cash flow. You can't use comparables. You can use raw materials. It's a straight up rock that people price.

Only in the same sense that nothing has inherent value. Gold is pretty and durable and people like it. That gives it value in the system of exchanging stuff amongst humans.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#123

Post by inter_netuser »

cromka wrote: post #106
tadzik_ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different If $SPY was 40% up since last month, would that be normal? ETH is still currently higher than its value from April 19th. Cryptocurrency market is extremely volatile. This isn't that far from normal.

> Cryptocurrency market is extremely volatile. This isn't that far from normal. I think you inadvertently confirm OPs point. Cryptocurrencies with their volatility cannot replace regular currencies.

650B is a small market cap for a global currency.

Gold is 12T. Once Bitcoin gets to 10T, volatility should drop.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#124

Post by singularity2001 »

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #56

Bitcoin is the ultimate, purely financial object. It has no revenues or profits. The supply is fixed -- unlike, say, gold, where high prices mean people will eventually start digging mines, BTC supply is entirely price-inelastic. The only thing that determines BTC price is demand. And over the past 13 years, we've seen reflexivity at work: The price has gone up, so more people want it, so the price goes up further, a…

The supply is infinite if you take the whole crypto space:

You can create as many BTC#3 EGold-plus ... as you wish, and future generations will.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#125

Post by zepto »

RivieraKid wrote: post #34
stephc_int13 wrote: post #8

I don't know why, it is probably highly irrational, but I always rejoice when the Bitcoin crashes.

Same. I hate the arrogant stupidity of the crypto cult.

It may be arrogant sounding, but it’s not stupid. It is in the financial interest of Bitcoin holders to talk up Bitcoin and defend it to the death.

The senior management of regular banks in many countries are often required by law to deny that the bank is in jeopardy right up until the moment they close the doors, as a way to prevent bank runs.

Because crypto is distributed, every holder is a bank manager, and must deny or minimize problems with the currency in order to maintain sentiment and prevent runs.

This for me is one of the biggest problems with Bitcoin - it incentivizes the holders to become engines of disinformation.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#126

Post by paulpauper »

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #56

Bitcoin is the ultimate, purely financial object. It has no revenues or profits. The supply is fixed -- unlike, say, gold, where high prices mean people will eventually start digging mines, BTC supply is entirely price-inelastic. The only thing that determines BTC price is demand. And over the past 13 years, we've seen reflexivity at work: The price has gone up, so more people want it, so the price goes up further, a…

That would only be true if bitcoin technology were protected by IP, which it is not. new coins effectively dilute existing holders of btc

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#127

Post by inter_netuser »

coldcode wrote: post #28
Stubb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto isn't a Ponzi scheme. A Ponzi scheme is form of fraud where funds from recent investors are used to pay (fictitious) profits to earlier investors. Say the ringleader claims a 10% profit. An early investor had deposited $100 and wants their $100. The ringleader had blown that investor's $100 on coke and hookers and gives him $110 from new investors. Crypto is more accurately a pyramid scheme. But then so are pr…

But at least gold has some inherent value, crypto is just math that is worth whatever the buyers/sellers think it should be. Stock in a company that stays in business will never go to zero as the company always has some value due to having revenue, but crypto has no real world floor (though unlikely to actually get to zero since someone will always buy).

Gold's monetary premium dwarfs its industrial value. Something like 90%+ is purely monetary usage.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#128

Post by lanstin »

phist_mcgee wrote: post #98
lottin wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the only utility it has is that it appreciates over time. Of course, until it no longer does, then becomes worthless.

And that I can send money worldwide to anyone at any time with no middleman.

D5CF5A343CEE5CF02556B7790D24C950495E04B9 Really a reply to the sibling.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#129

Post by bogota »

jmacd wrote: post #11

As an outside observer, who has no crypto holdings at all, but is very deeply invested in the public stock market with a heavy weight on technology stocks... this doesn't look like a crash to me at all. It just looks like some steam being let off and old investors cash out and new investors get more comfortable with how much and where to invest. I consider crypto currency as it is to be an elaborate Ponzi scheme (per…

You can criticize crypto currency’s for a lot but I still have never seen a good argument for it being a ponzi scheme. Can someone further this argument to one that wouldn't cover every investment asset?

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#130

Post by intotheabyss »

cromka wrote: post #106
tadzik_ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different If $SPY was 40% up since last month, would that be normal? ETH is still currently higher than its value from April 19th. Cryptocurrency market is extremely volatile. This isn't that far from normal.

> Cryptocurrency market is extremely volatile. This isn't that far from normal. I think you inadvertently confirm OPs point. Cryptocurrencies with their volatility cannot replace regular currencies.

Cryptocurrency is a misnomer. Most cryptos aren't trying to be currencies in the traditional sense. For example, RAI is a stablecoin on Ethereum that's not pegged to any fiat currencies. You can think of RAI as a stable form of ETH.
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