Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#121

Post by dnautics » Thu, May 13, 2021, 2:35 AM UTC

IdontRememberIt wrote: post #105

thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would someone at that level of wealth give in a more empathetic way? What should Bill and Buffett be doing instead?

Buffett always complains that he did not pay enough tax. He could simply wire 50% of his fortune to the IRS. His secretary had no choice. (End of sarcasm) They should donate to a foundation. They should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). Their family (direct or indirect) should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). The problem with these structures is that they allow someone to control and directly b…

I think the real thing is that Buffet knows that wiring your fortune to the IRS is a perilously stupid way to do good with your money; just statistically such a huge chunk of that will go to, say, bombing children halfway around the world, bureaucracies that spend money better than actually provide healthcare, and anti-poverty programs that are better at lining the pockets of 'social entrepreneurs' that are better at writing grants than providing services to the poor.

If you do actually believe that the federal government is the most efficient way to redistribute wealth, at least earmark it to killing the debt, which is an unethical institution (you cannot go back in time and vote against spending that your generation is forced to pay off; it's taxation without representation)

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/gift/gift.htm

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#122

Post by BoysenberryPi » Thu, May 13, 2021, 2:35 AM UTC

IdontRememberIt wrote: post #105

thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would someone at that level of wealth give in a more empathetic way? What should Bill and Buffett be doing instead?

Buffett always complains that he did not pay enough tax. He could simply wire 50% of his fortune to the IRS. His secretary had no choice. (End of sarcasm) They should donate to a foundation. They should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). Their family (direct or indirect) should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). The problem with these structures is that they allow someone to control and directly b…

Frankly if I was a billionaire and had the means to setup my own charity that I had complete visibility into so I knew exactly where every penny was spent I would do that over giving it to another foundation.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#123

Post by fnord77 » Thu, May 13, 2021, 2:37 AM UTC

there are no longer any effective checks and balances against corporate power.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#124

Post by ericmay » Thu, May 13, 2021, 2:44 AM UTC

dnautics wrote: post #121

IdontRememberIt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buffett always complains that he did not pay enough tax. He could simply wire 50% of his fortune to the IRS. His secretary had no choice. (End of sarcasm) They should donate to a foundation. They should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). Their family (direct or indirect) should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). The problem with these structures is that they allow someone to control and directly b…

I think the real thing is that Buffet knows that wiring your fortune to the IRS is a perilously stupid way to do good with your money; just statistically such a huge chunk of that will go to, say, bombing children halfway around the world, bureaucracies that spend money better than actually provide healthcare, and anti-poverty programs that are better at lining the pockets of 'social entrepreneurs' that are better at…

It’s fine if he thinks it’s stupid, but then he shouldn’t complain that he doesn’t pay enough either as if only he could pay more then he would do so. BS!

I don’t have a problem with the guy or with his wealth, but the whole “oh but if they’d only tax me” thing is infuriating.

Hell, he could just endow any number of non-Ivy League schools and pay for kids to go to college.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#125

Post by cigaser » Thu, May 13, 2021, 2:44 AM UTC

dheera wrote: post #99

IdontRememberIt wrote: post #67

If IP and shell companies infuriate you. I invite you to investigate why all billionaires have foundations or its cousin structures and "give" their wealth to it... Clue: tax and inheritance (tax) avoidance. Bill, Buffett, etc. are hypocrites. But it is not new, even in the Bible they spoke about it (Matthew 6:2): "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues…

Can someone create a Dutch-shell-companies-as-as-service (DSCaaS), generate and submit all legal documents automatically, and help normal citizens dodge the same amount of taxes?

Not without leaving US and maybe renouncing citizenship. But it is pretty simple to do. I live in EU and pay about 10% from $100k+ salary.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#126

Post by the_local_host » Thu, May 13, 2021, 2:44 AM UTC

dheera wrote: post #116

varenc wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect there's a large fixed cost to arrange this so it doesn't make sense for most people. Though maybe there's way to make it cheaper! Also with inheritance tax in the US, your estate isn't taxed unless it's worth more than $11.18 million [0]. So doesn't matter for most people. It's estimated only %0.2 of estates pay the tax. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_State...

I suppose a lot of the fixed costs are lawyers charging $1000/hour to fill in some blanks on some Word templates? Maybe an entrepreneur just needs to make that a web form. Fill in details and generate the same form for $10 instead of $1000. And then some robots to print, seal up, and mail the envelopes and we're done. I should be able to spin up a Dutch shell company like an EC2 instance. Maybe have "AWS" regions for…

Each pod in a Kubernetes cluster should register itself as a separate LLC and declare bankruptcy on shutdown. Free cloud deployments!

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#127

Post by seattle_spring » Thu, May 13, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

It's nuts to me that our government lets this happen, yet strives to vilify the upper middle class as the "billionaire class" and tax the shit out of them.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#128

Post by IdontRememberIt » Thu, May 13, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

lifeformed wrote: post #115

IdontRememberIt wrote: post #67

If IP and shell companies infuriate you. I invite you to investigate why all billionaires have foundations or its cousin structures and "give" their wealth to it... Clue: tax and inheritance (tax) avoidance. Bill, Buffett, etc. are hypocrites. But it is not new, even in the Bible they spoke about it (Matthew 6:2): "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues…

You could reframe it as: The tax benefits are there to incentivize philanthropic giving. Society benefits from their giving and they receive a tax benefit and PR boost in return. It's not like they're saving more money total by giving it away. And sure, it'd be nice if philanthropists were super humble and anonymous, but the money helps either way, and I don't think those who are helped by the giving care if the give…

It is a tool, you are right. But not the solution so it should not be so heavily encourage.

What should be encourage: a better distribution of the profits in the value production chain. At amazon, Wallmart, all the employees should be obscenely well paid (relatively to their job), the enormous profits should not be concentrated at the top.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#129

Post by markus_zhang » Thu, May 13, 2021, 2:50 AM UTC

seaourfreed wrote: post #93

Congress is corrupt (via lobbyists). Congress would make this illegal if congress men/women didn't sell out American Citizens. 88% of the cost of the US Fed gov is paid for by taxes by workers (income taxes). Less than 12% comes from all corp/business taxes combined with capital gains (taxing the rich 1%). Business shifting tax burden to workers is a massive scale problem. $3.5 Trillion = US Tax Revenues (2019) and 8…

IMO the state should give incentives and ways for billionaires and mega corps to invest into new technologies as well as new programs that will invigorate the economy, technology and other perspectives of the society. Sadly it seems it is doing the opposite.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#130

Post by fighterpilot » Thu, May 13, 2021, 2:51 AM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #88

fighterpilot wrote: post #78

I've heard this suggested before: abolish all corporate tax and increase capital gains tax to equal income tax. This will level the playing field between large and small businesses, since the former has the means to dodge byzantine corporate tax laws. It will also give an incentive for companies to stay onshore. Any downsides?

Yes. > increase capital gains tax to equal income tax Is far easier said than done. For example, would you include the $250K capital gains deduction for selling a home in that? Additionally, you're probably referring to raising long-term capital gains tax, but that has the side effect of disincentivizing long-term investment in favor of more short-term speculation.

How would it disincentivize long term investment?

In the US dividends are taxed at capital gains. I believe if a company makes $X and gives it out as a dividend it makes no difference to the investor whether the split between capital gains and corporate tax is 25/25 versus 43.75/0?