Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Deno 1.10 Release Notes

deno.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 157 posts

Re: Deno 1.10 Release Notes

#121

Post by Soremwar »

the_duke wrote: post #44

I was interested in Deno from the start. It has a few very nice features. Notably the sandboxing model, native Typescript support and browser based API surface. But I also was quite skeptical of their dependency model with plain url imports. With the current implementation you end up with a half-baked import map that's essentially a poor mans package.json, but without any of the tooling that you'd expect. (like npm u…

IMO this is a terrible idea.

If I have learned anything from working long time with NPM is you can't trust a single command with updating your dependencies and you can't trust developers to respect semver on the long run.

I can't stress how many times I had to review and undo automated dependency bumps because my app suddenly stopped working, and the times I was forced to I had to bump said dependencies in the lock file myself

In a compiled language, where code is compiled once and valid there 'til the end of times this is not even a problem. In an interpreted language where all code is evaluated every time you run your program, this makes automated dependency management an impossible task

Re: Deno 1.10 Release Notes

#122

Post by cylon13 »

ithrow wrote: post #117
BatteryMountain wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand all the hate towards .Net. The included libraries are amazing.. about 80% of what you will ever need is provided by the framework. It basically provides you with a massive selection of tools, ready to go. The rest you can either build yourself or pull in a (precompiled) nuget package. It is my main gripe with JavaScript (and with typescript): a lack of a standard library that everyone uses and trus…

I don't understand all the hate towards .Net. Because it's the same over-abstracted over-engineered life-sucking ecosystem as the Java world.

I think that's more a property of the C# code that's out there rather than a property of .NET or C# themselves. A lot of (most?) C# and Java code in the world is over-abstracted over-engineered and life-sucking just by virtue of them being popular corporate languages and most code being boring. Using C# with Unity, for instance, is a pretty good experience though.

Re: Deno 1.10 Release Notes

#123

Post by KyleJune »

azangru wrote: post #58
intellix wrote: post #43

How is the built in testing? I'm a bit wary because Jest is so good and wonder if it can compete on every front it's baking in. It reminds me of Angular coming with it's own Router, Forms, Animations and then since they're provided officially, alternatives don't get created and then the half of the team leaves and the packages are abandoned.

> How is the built in testing? Much more minimalist than Jest. Very similar to Node's built-in testing [0]. - I don't believe the test environment is recreated between test files - No way to mock imported modules, as far as I understand. I don't believe the built-in testing has any mocking or spying functionality at all - No describe/it/expect syntax that Jest inherited from Jasmine (I am not sure where it came from…

There are third party modules for providing many of those things. I created 2 modules for testing.

This module has describe/it functions with setup/teardown hooks. It supports nesting test blocks. I think the built in assertion functions are quite good so I didn't bother creating an expect function although there are other third party modules that provide that functionality.

https://deno.land/x/test_suite

I had difficulty getting sinon to work earlier on so I wrote a similar module in TypeScript for creating spys, stubs, and faking time.

https://deno.land/x/mock

Re: Deno 1.10 Release Notes

#124

Post by irrational »

1_player wrote: post #69
ranguna wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally like to have a few dependencies in my projects and a simple runtime vs having a monster of a language with a huge amount a unrelated and specialised APIs (java) and still need to install some additional dependencies. I think the barebone nature of nodejs and javascript is what makes it great. If you don't like it, don't use it, there are other languages and runtimes out there and node is a really good fi…

I don't. I'd rather trust the tens of thousands of developers working on the core language and core stdlib, than on a dependency some random guy in Albania maintains on his spare time. Or in the case of the JS ecosystem, you might only use established dependencies, which in turn use dozens more which in turn use dozens more, and the probability that there's a dependency some random guy in Albania maintains very quick…

There is nothing stopping you from looking at their code and, after vetting it, copying the code and pasting it into your own local JS files. Now you don’t have to worry about anyone tampering with it after you have vetted it.

Re: Deno 1.10 Release Notes

#125

Post by Soremwar »

redleader55 wrote: post #46

I like the ideas behind Deno, but I'm wondering if testing should be so included in the standard library, unless it is extremely flexible. Each team will have different problems when it comes to scaling, running tests in parallel - sometimes on the same machine, sometimes on multiple machines, e2e tests vs unit-tests, etc. This looks like a problem you solve in a library, not something to add in the core.

There have been multiple test runners built on top of Deno's vanilla testing (through the JSON output feature), those may fit your use case better

The current multi threaded and module isolated model however I think it's good for the great majority of projects, so I'm glad it's built in

Re: Deno 1.10 Release Notes

#126

Post by BatteryMountain »

ithrow wrote: post #117
BatteryMountain wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand all the hate towards .Net. The included libraries are amazing.. about 80% of what you will ever need is provided by the framework. It basically provides you with a massive selection of tools, ready to go. The rest you can either build yourself or pull in a (precompiled) nuget package. It is my main gripe with JavaScript (and with typescript): a lack of a standard library that everyone uses and trus…

I don't understand all the hate towards .Net. Because it's the same over-abstracted over-engineered life-sucking ecosystem as the Java world.

That really depends on the developers involved. Some people like building over complicated complex nonsense to justify their existence, while others build very lean/shallow code and go on with their lives.

The code I write for production in the "realworld" is maybe 1/4 as complex/convoluted as the academic stuff we did in university. And lines of code -wise, maybe 1/10.

You don't need to build an excavator to add some dirt into potted plants, but I can bet there will always be people who build a space-grade shovels with redundant enterprise level handles that guarantees maximum soil filling rates, even when under water... but not everyone is like that. C#/.Net Core definitely doesn't throw you down that path.

I personally don't like AspNet Core, as plenty of the old mistakes are being repeated, some of the same patterns exists, which I'd argue Microsoft had the opportunity to move away from, but didn't. But .net core itself is pretty great (and lean, no overabstraction in the core system).

Re: Deno 1.10 Release Notes

#127

Post by Soremwar »

sam_goody wrote: post #80

Node is amazing, but it was Electron that really made Node something that every school kid had to learn. As long as Electron has no plans to support Deno, it will be WAY behind in traction. /useless prediction

We may have WebGPU powered desktop applications in the near future though. Let's see how things play out, as you daid

Re: Deno 1.10 Release Notes

#128

Post by Soremwar »

yepthatsreality wrote: post #102
Graffur wrote: post #78

Has Deno failed to get adoption? I haven't seen it used anywhere to be honest.

...it’s only been around ~3 years.

Wrong, 1.0 released exactly one year ago, before there was mostly destabilization of the runtime and not really development features

Re: Deno 1.10 Release Notes

#129

Post by irrational »

cztomsik wrote: post #20
echopom wrote: post #8

Still not tempted by Deno to be honest. All the problem that currently exist in Node are being ported to Deno straight up. The built-in apis provided by Node.JS are almost non-existent... hence most of them are buggy and quiet tedious to use , it's why the community has created thousands of packages to resolve those issues. Here I don't see how Deno is solving this , all the APIS seems again so barebone.. instead of…

deno is definitely better in the sense that it's way more compatible with browser and I think that's really big thing in the long run (but nodejs could do that too, eventually) regarding 1000+ deps, yes that's a bad thing but it's not really about language, it's rather about people. when node started, usual number of dependencies was low. I know because I was there and I was making fun of maven and how it pulls half…

> because you really need that thing so what you are going to do?

When that thing is as simple as left_pad, I’d just copy and paste it into my own code. Or just write it myself.

When did so much of development become glueing other people’s code together? Don’t we all know how to write something as simple as left pad? Why was it ever a good idea to pull it in from somewhere else?

Re: Deno 1.10 Release Notes

#130

Post by Scarbutt »

BatteryMountain wrote: post #126
ithrow wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand all the hate towards .Net. Because it's the same over-abstracted over-engineered life-sucking ecosystem as the Java world.

That really depends on the developers involved. Some people like building over complicated complex nonsense to justify their existence, while others build very lean/shallow code and go on with their lives. The code I write for production in the "realworld" is maybe 1/4 as complex/convoluted as the academic stuff we did in university. And lines of code -wise, maybe 1/10. You don't need to build an excavator to add som…

Yep, was exploring ASPNet Core for a new project and was like nope ;)
Post reply on HN