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Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

babeljs.io

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Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#121

Post by watwut »

justmedep wrote: post #95
dandellion wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt the lead developers of a team of 4 make more than $11k in most of Europe.

Usually the product of a team of 4 is not that well known nor successful. And you can't really compare the average developer with the three developers mentioned since they are clearly outstanding and could get hired by almost any company.

The salaries of engineers don't scale that much with success of the product. He can get hired by almost any company, but those companies will pay standard pay for lead developers of a team of 4.

(But also no, his salary is not what bankrupts Babel. It is too low for that.)

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#122

Post by [deleted] »

underwater wrote: post #111

I work for a startup that benefits from open source. I can and do make the case for spending a lot of money on SaaS products and hiring people. But there is no way in the world I can stand in front of company leadership and ask for money to spend on something that I already get for free. I'd look out of touch with the realities of running a business and the request would be roundly shouted down. If there's some value…

[deleted]

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#123

Post by bryanrasmussen »

cycomanic wrote: post #87

I find the comments here fascinating. So the lead developer was paid $11k a month, and somehow many start calling this a problem. Apparently, if you work on OSS you should be working for something slightly above the poverty line. People are comparing it to other salaries, but seem to forget that this salary likely does not include any other benefits (health insurance, stock options ...). I mean he is the lead develop…

right, as a consultant I make significantly more than that, and when working full time I make that amount before all the perks.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#124

Post by AshleysBrain »

It seems to be a recurring problem with open-source/pay-what-you-want services that donations are hard to come by. I think that if you don't have to pay, than about 90% of potential customers who would have paid just won't. Sometimes it's because they think "hey, it's free". But I think in some cases there's even a desire to pay, but the organisation isn't geared for it. For example maybe the company's payment process is just too arduous to go through if you don't have to. Or maybe someone proposes it and is countered with "what's the business case?", which is hard to answer if it's free.

I think the answer is just make some kind of optional paid service that some of your bigger customers will need. It might be an anathema to open source folks, but having an optional proprietary add-on, or some kind of paid maintenance service or something like that, may well solve the problem.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#126

Post by golergka »

_odey wrote: post #109
dandellion wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt the lead developers of a team of 4 make more than $11k in most of Europe.

As employees, maybe in the UK or Ireland. Most likely not in Germany, and never in any eastern European country. As contractors, you could theoretically in any country, the more eastern, the more luck you need to have, but it's doable. Source: I've asked ex-colleagues, recruiters, and people at meetups.

> never in any eastern European country

A couple of Russian enterprise companies have been sucking up all available Java talent in the last couple of years, with top salaries coming up to a million roubles for non-managers. Salaries in Russia are calculated per month and post-tax (people don't even know how much tax they pay), so it's about $13k per month after tax, and $20k per month before tax. I have also seen a couple of openings for Rust engineers in financial sector promising up to $10k a month (after tax).

Of course, this is a very far outlier from the average rates: senior engineer in Moscow typically takes home $3-5k (after tax, monthly). But it's not 'never'.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#127

Post by wwn_se »

dandellion wrote: post #90
cycomanic wrote: post #87

I find the comments here fascinating. So the lead developer was paid $11k a month, and somehow many start calling this a problem. Apparently, if you work on OSS you should be working for something slightly above the poverty line. People are comparing it to other salaries, but seem to forget that this salary likely does not include any other benefits (health insurance, stock options ...). I mean he is the lead develop…

I seriously doubt the lead developers of a team of 4 make more than $11k in most of Europe.

It's hard to compare between different countries due to different taxes and so on. But that's almost double what a generic team lead would make here in Sweden (50-60 is probably closer) but a high level dev working a prestige project could make more of course.

They should probably change the business model to make more money from consulting or lecturing. Many companies pay well to get "famous-project" devs for consulting or talks. Donations is usually a different budget than training or short term staff.

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#128

Post by EdwardDiego »

cycomanic wrote: post #87

I find the comments here fascinating. So the lead developer was paid $11k a month, and somehow many start calling this a problem. Apparently, if you work on OSS you should be working for something slightly above the poverty line. People are comparing it to other salaries, but seem to forget that this salary likely does not include any other benefits (health insurance, stock options ...). I mean he is the lead develop…

Wait, since when is $11K a month slightly above the poverty line?

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#129

Post by plasma »

underwater wrote: post #111

I work for a startup that benefits from open source. I can and do make the case for spending a lot of money on SaaS products and hiring people. But there is no way in the world I can stand in front of company leadership and ask for money to spend on something that I already get for free. I'd look out of touch with the realities of running a business and the request would be roundly shouted down. If there's some value…

> But there is no way in the world I can stand in front of > company leadership and ask for money to spend on something > that I already get for free. I'd look out of touch with > the realities of running a business. The request would be > roundly shouted down.

I agree, at minimum, the its free but seeking sponsorship model is making it hard.

Looking at their Sponsorship options on GitHub [1] I see there's a useful perk at the $2,000/month price point, a Support Tier.

It would be interesting to investigate offering "Paid support" for $50-100/month (something easier to put on a development team's corporate credit card), that gives you "priority" in response to GitHub Issues.

Something tangible that the company gets back.

[1] https://github.com/sponsors/babel?o=esb

Re: Babel is used by millions, so why are we running out of money?

#130

Post by iso1631 »

rvnx wrote: post #102
formerly_proven wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $11k a month [...] Significantly above that salary, even in most of Europe. lolnope

I like how one user deleted his comment saying even in Ukraine or Georgia basic dev earns more than 10k USD/month

10k a year perhaps
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