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On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

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121–130 of 1001 posts

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#121

There is a lot to unpack here, and it is difficult to know where to begin. I had a friend who was a pastor who lamented he didn't like that his yearly board game get-together with his other [often pastor] friends often ended up discussing their dead bedrooms. I have no idea how these dynamics have come to be so common, even taking into account the usual ebbs and flows in relationships. I don't know if this problem oc…

> [obviously misguided] purity culture

As far as I understand it celibacy of men devoted to religion or spiritual endeavours is not about "purity" but total focus. And I don't think that is misguided. It's just very resolute.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#122

> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…

> having a romantic and sexual relationship is not a requirement for a happy life.

This is a bit silly: either it's trivially true but irrelevant, if the claim is that there exist people who can live happy lives without (sexual) relationships; or it's flatly false, if the claim is that everyone can be equally happy without relationships as they would be with them.

Relationships bring significant happiness. People who are in relationships self-report more happiness. They're richer. They live longer lives. You might say that I'm mistaking cause and effect: maybe happier/richer/healthier people are more likely to enter into relationships? This is probably part of the effect, but not the majority of it. If someone randomly ends up a widower from their partner experiencing a sudden, tragic accident, their happiness doesn't remain level. In fact, it substantially decreases: widowers have some of the highest suicide rates of any demographic group.

Relationships aren't some crazy random idea that just happened to develop in 2020 USA. They exist universally, across all cultures and times. All of them consider a relationship as a good, important goal (even as the typical attributes of relationships do vary). It's hard to name any facet of culture as universal as that.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#123
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that a high level of devotion is not the same thing as codependency. I'm not sure you and OP are actually disagreeing with each other here. It's entirely possible to have an enduring, meaningful, devoted, monogamous relationship that brings a great deal of happiness to both partners without that relationship being a requirement for the people involved to experience any amount of happiness or fulfillment…

Yeah man I don't think I would classify a committed relationship where partners end up missing their partner when they're gone as "codependent". And honestly this whole trend of laymen trying to psychoanalyze people with whatever toxic psychobabble their read on twitter is getting out of hand. Codependence is when two people have some unhealthy trait that is reinforced by the other person's unhealthy trait. From wiki…

> Yeah man I don't think I would classify a committed relationship where partners end up missing their partner when they're gone as "codependent".

> I spent every day without her more or less miserable

This is a bit more than "missing" them.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#125
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy in life is their partner then something is wrong When you get older, a partner (or children) are important to keep you going. Your body will fail you. Your mind will fail you. Your life will end and (statistically) it will be a long downward slope. Binding yourself to the right person keeps that slope more e…

> People who think being alone is great are right, I think the critical part is the "only thing" in the quote. The same thought expressed as "she makes me happy" and "she's the only thing that makes me happy" are different because of the implied loss of everything (that you will give up everything else that could make you happy to have this person stay). > until some point after the slide begins that has slowly eaten…

> I think the critical part is the "only thing" in the quote

This is editorial added by the commenter, which is incidental to the point and does not purport to even hold the meaning of "she's the only thing that makes me happy". This is not literally meaning "the only happiness I feel". Ostensibly, the man still finds happiness in sleeping, eating, etc but a good partner fills a particular kind of happiness that is near impossible to replace.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#126
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> feminists have a much broader and less altruistic agenda than one could reasonably infer from their name What is the evidence that leads you to this nonsense conclusion?

Far right propaganda

Which when translated from the progressive "your truth" to reality comes out as video and written evidence.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#127
I'm an incel. It doesn't have to be sexist. I don't have any specific feelings towards women. I just know I don't get an ROI on investing in dating. So I just invest in my self for my self and allow myself one sexual interaction a month through paying for it like a service. I'm available for dating or relationships but have no expectations. It's healthy enough.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#128

There is a lot to unpack here, and it is difficult to know where to begin. I had a friend who was a pastor who lamented he didn't like that his yearly board game get-together with his other [often pastor] friends often ended up discussing their dead bedrooms. I have no idea how these dynamics have come to be so common, even taking into account the usual ebbs and flows in relationships. I don't know if this problem oc…

Religious couples tend to have the most fulfilling sex lives. Conservative religious couples have the best: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7060099/Highly-reli...

Myself, as a highly conservative married man, my findings confirm the daily mail article, esp. when I look at the sex lives of my married friends who were more libertine in their youth.

EDIT: A few theories:

1. My wife is not on birth control, which means she ovulates, and thus has the normal cyclical female sex drive. Her desires during ovulation are way past mine, even if my average is higher than hers. I believe this is why modern men feel so undesirable -- most women are taking hormones that directly affect how attractive they perceive their men to be.

2. No points of comparison. I have no point of comparison with other women. At this point my sexual response, probably through repeated exposure, is finely tuned to my wife. I have fantasies, like any man, but the vividness of my lived experience far surpasses them in excitement.

3. No pornography. I'm not saying I've been perfect, but my religion believes that consuming pornography (same with masturbation) leads to hell, so it's not something I typically do. I have a high sex drive as a result, and instead of masturbating, we have sex instead.

4. No condoms. Similar to number 1. Sex without a condom is better. We tried it once (in violation of my religion) and it was awful. I wouldn't describe it as the same experience. I'm pretty sure there's something in each of our secretions that makes no condom sex better. I'm not a sex scientist, but this is my observation.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#129

> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…

>having a romantic and sexual relationship is not a requirement for a happy life. It is for many, many, many people.

So are sugar, TV and status symbols.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#130

> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…

>having a romantic and sexual relationship is not a requirement for a happy life. It is for many, many, many people.

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