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Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#121

Post by thom »

Nursie wrote: post #99
rlv-dan wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people pay insane amount for a box copy of Super Mario Bros, a game you can play one pretty much any device. ROM dumps are literary the same data. I guess rarity is hard to set a price on. And people like being rare and unique.

It's not exactly the same thing though, there's a difference there, you get the physical object. I agree that some people value rarity and uniqueness, but it doesn't look to me like diamonds (natural or otherwise) provide that.

You can make or buy your own custom SNES cartridges with whatever ROM you like. They’re about $20 so clearly there’s more at work here.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#122

Post by [deleted] »

joeblau wrote: post #65

Random diamond story! As a freshman in college, I took a geology class and our teacher asked all of the women in our class to raise their hand if they would rather have natural or human-made diamonds. Most of the women (over 80%) raised their hands for natural. The reasons they gave all seemed to tie back to branding and natural diamonds being “real.” Then our teacher gave another analogy. He asked if people would ra…

[deleted]

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#123

Post by Nursie »

qw wrote: post #104
joeblau wrote: post #65

Random diamond story! As a freshman in college, I took a geology class and our teacher asked all of the women in our class to raise their hand if they would rather have natural or human-made diamonds. Most of the women (over 80%) raised their hands for natural. The reasons they gave all seemed to tie back to branding and natural diamonds being “real.” Then our teacher gave another analogy. He asked if people would ra…

It's mostly about the emotional attachment. If you find two identical pens, and one of them was used by a famous writer, you would expect a price difference. There is no difference in the quality of those pens. They both work the same, and using the writer's pen will not make you a better writer by itself. I personally would not buy a natural diamond because of the ethical issues, but I do understand the students who…

That's a good point, the difference doesn't have to be in the item itself, BUT -

Does anyone, other than geologists of course, really care about the back-story of the diamond, how it was created and how it was mined? Or are they just hanging on to an idea that some of them are "real" and some "not real" for the purposes of social signalling?

If the latter, I would consider this much more changeable over time.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#124

Post by wilsonrocks »

cyberpunk wrote: post #3

Married members of HN, what did you do if you think diamonds are utterly ridiclious however due to societal constraints some kind of ring is required for your SO?

Luckily my wife wanted Peridots but I would not have bought diamonds on ethical grounds.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#125

Post by bongobingo »

Nursie wrote: post #99
rlv-dan wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people pay insane amount for a box copy of Super Mario Bros, a game you can play one pretty much any device. ROM dumps are literary the same data. I guess rarity is hard to set a price on. And people like being rare and unique.

It's not exactly the same thing though, there's a difference there, you get the physical object. I agree that some people value rarity and uniqueness, but it doesn't look to me like diamonds (natural or otherwise) provide that.

They do. Actual diamonds have occlusions, slight color shifts, unique sparkle patterns, and other characteristics.

Grown diamonds are too perfect, and it’s trivially easy to tell the difference. You don’t need a loupe at all.

I don’t own any diamonds, but I like rocks and minerals. Hank from breaking bad would be proud.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#126

Post by tiborsaas »

joeblau wrote: post #65

Random diamond story! As a freshman in college, I took a geology class and our teacher asked all of the women in our class to raise their hand if they would rather have natural or human-made diamonds. Most of the women (over 80%) raised their hands for natural. The reasons they gave all seemed to tie back to branding and natural diamonds being “real.” Then our teacher gave another analogy. He asked if people would ra…

> at a fraction of the cost

That might also be the reason. If something is cheaper, it feels inferior.

Also with diamonds it's probably a factor that the fiancé is expected to present serious intents with a deeper monetary investment. "Look honey, it's an ethical, clean diamond and only cost 1/20th of a dirty one" sad, but feels wrong.

Edit: I also remember a guy at dinner party bragging about buying a 5000EUR ring, it goes both ways.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#127

Post by wccrawford »

dijit wrote: post #83
simonh wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the best option available to people was diamond mining, by taking that away from them we’re by definition pushing them into an even worse option. That’s a big problem I have with a lot of the do-good commentary on developing world labour. Taking away options from people, even bad ones from our point of view, isn’t necessarily doing them any favours. None of these peoples options are going to look good to us. Actua…

> If the best option available to people was diamond mining, by taking that away from them we’re by definition pushing them into an even worse option. If your business is to force people into slavery, then it is part of your business to remove other avenues for them to get out of slavery.

>If your business is to force people into slavery, then it is part of your business to remove other avenues for them to get out of slavery.

I suspect your sentence got a little mangled. It sounds like you're saying that businesses should try to prevent people from getting out of slavery by removing other avenues by which they could free themselves.

I suspect you mean that they should create those avenues for freedom, instead.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#128

Post by shakna »

enriquto wrote: post #20
cyberpunk wrote: post #3

Married members of HN, what did you do if you think diamonds are utterly ridiclious however due to societal constraints some kind of ring is required for your SO?

If you are on the same page as your partner, you'll have no trouble sorting this thing out. In my case I bought a joke ring that cost me about 2$ in a toy store. If you are not on the same page as your partner, you have more important concerns than a stupid ring of metal.

> In my case I bought a joke ring that cost me about 2$ in a toy store.

I love it.

My ring was a spinner, which people find far more interesting than some pretty stones in it. It cost about $10.

Hers was one with a fingernail-sized stone the colour of her eyes, that cost a few hundred.

The metals matched on eyesight, which was good enough for us.

The rings represented what we expected from our marriage - to join us, the way we were, rather than some showy way of expressing our love. We're no longer in the age of selling a ring to get by if a marriage falls apart or something else happens.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#129

Post by mattowen_uk »

cyberpunk wrote: post #3

Married members of HN, what did you do if you think diamonds are utterly ridiclious however due to societal constraints some kind of ring is required for your SO?

Engagement rings are rings of ownership - They are a marker to tell other prospective suiters that the wearer is is 'off the market' and belongs to someone else.

If you think you are any kind of forward thinking person, you would not be on board with this archaic practice at all.

Also, De Beers invented[1] the concept of diamond-based engagement rings back when diamond jewellery sales were at an all time low, as a business-saving incentive. There zero romance in buying one for your partner.

---

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/ho...

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#130

Post by Nursie »

thom wrote: post #121
Nursie wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not exactly the same thing though, there's a difference there, you get the physical object. I agree that some people value rarity and uniqueness, but it doesn't look to me like diamonds (natural or otherwise) provide that.

You can make or buy your own custom SNES cartridges with whatever ROM you like. They’re about $20 so clearly there’s more at work here.

OK, but then there's still a physical difference, purchasing the physical object, including original box, published by nintendo, or reprogramming your own generic which will contain different electronics.

But yes, as I said above, there is value to some people in the rarity and uniqueness of that original, even if you could pump out something that is to all intents and purposes identical.

But diamonds aren't all that rare, the market is managed to restrict supply, even with that everyone and their grandmother has one on their finger. And few people (other than geologists I guess) are really bothered about the back story here. They have an idea about what's "real", and what's not, but that can change.

(I also think where we're just talking about lumps of a material, it's slightly different to a manufactured object, perhaps)

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