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Flu has disappeared worldwide during the Covid pandemic

scientificamerican.com

121–130 of 821 posts

Re: Flu has disappeared worldwide during the Covid pandemic

#121
post #86
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notion that horizontal interdiction is responsible for this suppression is absolutely, positively absurd and will never stand up to scrutiny. On the other hand, this patterns very neatly with previously observed and well-documented phenomena of viral interference, specifically with respect to influenza. Here's a good paper to start a journey of research on this topic: https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/212/11/1…

Norovirus was also decimated last year, and it doesn't infect the same organs/cells as respiratory viruses: https://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/reporting/norostat/data.html

Sure. I think it's plausible that widespread surface sterilization is responsible for suppression of fomite transmission.

Re: Flu has disappeared worldwide during the Covid pandemic

#122

I keep wondering how Lice will be able to hang around much after last year's social distancing, especially among children.

I thought lice were found in the environment and not human reservoirs only. Obviously sterilizing the Earth coukd technically solve it but going full War of the Worlds Martian would be a terrible idea.

Re: Flu has disappeared worldwide during the Covid pandemic

#123
post #72
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Covid goes away, we can assume masking, distancing, and staying home will also go away. In that case, all communicable diseases are likely to increase, from the common cold to STDs.

And thus the flu hasn't disappeared.

Ah, you're reading the word "forever" at the end of that sentence, which notably does not actually include the word.

Influenza will likely never be eradicated from the earth completely, but in the most recent flu season worldwide, it was essentially missing.

Re: Flu has disappeared worldwide during the Covid pandemic

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the corona virus is asymptomatic for some people (as is known to be), and the effects they are feeling are from the flu. How many people get a false positive (or true positive that would otherwise be asymptomatic) while also being positive for the flu? Maybe corona virus is an enabler of some other disease, like a particularly virulent flu or some other respiratory infection. This questions are inconvenient,…

I mean the first one is possible. I think it has been thought of though, we do random testing sometimes and at least some covid samples are also tested for flu. The second just seems wrong. Like it could have been true a year ago, but it really would be known by now and there really isn't any reason it would be inconvenient for any sort of narrative. Diseases that weaken your immune system enough for some other disea…

> Diseases that weaken your immune system

Why are some people to be weakened and not others? Maybe that's what we should be investigating.

Re: Flu has disappeared worldwide during the Covid pandemic

#125
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange to call this an "alternative explanation", since it's the one that expert infectious disease researchers, nearly without exception, are pointing to. The (let's face it, silly) notion that masks and distancing suppressed all respiratory pathogens except one is a theory with very little traction, and which will almost certainly not stand up to serious scrutiny.

There’s nothing silly about a novel virus having greater abilities to overcome barriers when compared to other pathogens that humans have had years decades and centuries to develop defenses again. At the end of the day it’s likely gonna be the result of a combination of all these factors.

> There’s nothing silly about a novel virus having greater abilities to overcome barriers when compared to other pathogens that humans have had years decades and centuries to develop defenses again.

Agreed! What you are describing is viral interference: population-level immune responses to one respiratory pathogen causing suppression of others.

We've seen selective suppression of influenza and all of the other four endemic coronaviruses, while SARS-CoV-2 has thrived. This is true throughout the world, including places where stringent horizontal interdictive measures were taken, in places where no such measures were taken, and in all places in between.

> At the end of the day it’s likely gonna be the result of a combination of all these factors.

I think it's very unlikely - almost impossibly so - that interdiction has played a meaningful role in population-level suppression. I don't think it will be a combination; I think it will be explained by the same clearly observed phenomenon which has been responsible for similar outcomes in the past.

Re: Flu has disappeared worldwide during the Covid pandemic

#126

Just speculating here, but maybe because of false positives where flu cases get labeled as Covid? I've heard that PCR tests were not meant to be used for large scale virus detection. EDIT: The PCR test quote was fact checked and deemed to be misleading, but it still sounds like they are not very accurate [0]. [0]: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-pcr-idUSKBN2442...

The inventor of the PCR test himself, Kary Mullis, was very critical of Fauci and the way that PCR is being used today [1]. Are there any rebuttals or counterpoints to his statements on PCR?

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0aMow7FrZo

Re: Flu has disappeared worldwide during the Covid pandemic

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This questions are inconvenient, so they'll go unasked by the media, let alone answered. Literally an infinite number of questions go unasked by the media. Often because they're a pointless waste of time. I'd say if leading virologists around the world looked at it in a lab and agree it's not some mystery illness, most media will go with that. At least the reputable ones not fishing for cheap attention from paranoi…

Leading virologists said not to give people anti-inflammatories at the beginning of the pandemic and probably killed a bunch of people. > At least the reputable ones not fishing for cheap attention from paranoid conspiracy theorists. We're not talking about paranoid conspiracy theories here, we're talking about the inexplicable disappearance of influenza globally, when it should have the same transmission characteris…

> when it should have the same transmission characteristics as corona virus. Corona might spread more rapidly, but it should spread in the same manner.

That's just like not true. Different diseases spread differently. It seems like covid will spread better through smaller droplets for example. And even if it were you just said that covid spreads easier. Disease transmission isn't linear so if interventions were enough to dip Flu's reproduction rate below 1 we'd see more or less what we've seen. Very little spread. Even if we ignore all of that and pretend you're right and really this year of horror has just been Flu cases, the health care system almost collapse in Italy, NYC, LA, and now India is still a huge deal. Hugely more people are dying this year than do in an average year. People died, literally dies in all of these places because they weren't able to get into a hospital. I don't care if it was actually covid (it was) or not killing them

Re: Flu has disappeared worldwide during the Covid pandemic

#128
post #88

Just speculating here, but maybe because of false positives where flu cases get labeled as Covid? I've heard that PCR tests were not meant to be used for large scale virus detection. EDIT: The PCR test quote was fact checked and deemed to be misleading, but it still sounds like they are not very accurate [0]. [0]: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-pcr-idUSKBN2442...

Yes, that's the hypothesis of the "There's no Covid-19" crowd that will disappear whenever hospital corridors are filled with dead bodies. On the other hand PCR test are not inaccurate at all, at least regarding false positives. There are detailed articles and even Youtube videos on the process and if you take a look, you will understand why it's quite accurate. In essence, they create a reaction that will mass produ…

> On the other hand PCR test are not inaccurate at all, at least regarding false positives.

PCR tests work by selectively amplifying DNA. Each PCR test cycle approximately doubles the amount of the selected DNA. (for SARS-CoV-2, an RNA virus, the RNA is first converted to DNA)

Since each cycle approximately doubles the amount of selected DNA present, PCR tests can be extraordinarily sensitive if enough cycles are used. In theory, just a single fragment of RNA could result in a positive test. As Health Canada says:

"There are numerous studies that demonstrate prolonged detection of SARS-CoV-2 RNA that extends beyond the resolution of COVID-19 symptoms and can persist for several weeks or months." https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/201...

Hospitals are testing pretty much everyone who comes in the door for COVID-19. The fact that people can test positive long after they were actually infected should obviously raise questions about the accuracy of our statistics with regard to COVID-19 hospitalization and death rates.

Additionally, contamination is a potential problem. For example, the BBC's undercover reporting found significant cross-contamination between samples at one testing lab: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56556806

Contamination could be showing up as a multiplier on true positives: as positive % increases, opportunities for contamination also increase. Since PCR tests work by replicating DNA, they also have the unusual property that the testing process itself creates large quantities of potential contamination. Good lab practice will eliminate that problem. But that's hard to guarantee when testing volume is increased enormously in a short period of time.

Re: Flu has disappeared worldwide during the Covid pandemic

#129
post #3

While I think this is most likely due to masking, distancing and staying home when sick, which were all far more effective against the flu than against SARS-CoV-2, I wonder how much this was affected by some of the deep cleans that cities were doing at the beginning of the pandemic where they basically sprayed entire cities with disinfectant trucks. Does anyone with more expertise have any thoughts about that?

Flu - a coronavirus that has been wiped out because of social distance and masking and hygiene controls Covid - a coronavirus that is absolutely rampant because insufficient masking, distancing, and hygiene controls How you rationalize that hypocrisy so easily in your head is beyond me.

Whoa, crossing into personal attack and flamewar comments like you did here, and elsewhere in this thread, is totally not cool on HN, no matter how wrong someone else is or you feel they are.

We ban accounts that post like this, because it's so destructive of the community we're trying to have here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules, we'd be grateful.

Re: Flu has disappeared worldwide during the Covid pandemic

#130
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flu - a coronavirus that has been wiped out because of social distance and masking and hygiene controls Covid - a coronavirus that is absolutely rampant because insufficient masking, distancing, and hygiene controls How you rationalize that hypocrisy so easily in your head is beyond me.

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