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Don't be rich, Live rich

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Re: Don't be rich, Live rich

#121

We've been doing this for three years now. This couple seemed to focus on having a year abroad, we've made it our lifestyle, and we're doing a startup (rather than consulting). I started this as a response to the "how to keep productive" question, but I'll try to address the other questions people have been asking in the thread later on. We also have the issue of taking some period of time to get back into the produc…

I've done what you describe in various countries (minus the working bit), and while I'd definitely recommend this to anyone with an adventurous bent and who's curious about other cultures, it's not all wine and roses.

Here are some warnings, learned through experience:

As a foreigner you will often be treated as a second class citizen. That may or may not matter much, depending on where you go, what you do, whether you speak the language, and how many quality contacts you have in your host country.

I found it disheartening but eye opening just how poorly I was treated sometimes just because I wasn't a native, didn't speak the language, or was just being a respectful tourist.

Dealing with the bureaucracy in foreign countries when you're not a native could be a nightmare. It's even worse when you don't speak the language.

Again, speaking the language is also really important if you want to have natives as friends. Far too often expats socialize within a cocoon of other expats. And it's very easy to become very isolated in a foreign land, especially if you're not naturally very social and outgoing.

Flying and various other mechanics of travel might seem fun when you first start, but they'll become routine and maybe even onerous before too long -- especially with the ever increasing hassles of going through security and customs.

As a native in your own country you can frequently get away with a lot of things and talk your way out of many situations that you can't when you're a foreigner.

Foreigners and tourists often get taken advantage of because they don't know the rules, because they're afraid of getting kicked out of the country, and because they get little sympathy from some natives who look at them as nothing more than walking cash machines.

Of course, sometimes foreigners can get away with stuff that natives can't.. especially in the realm of social faux-pas, where a foreigner can be forgiven for being ignorant of local customs. But even here, not everyone is equally tolerant.

That said, I've benefited greatly from travel. It's been a very educational and mind-opening experience. Through it I've met many wonderful people and seen and experienced things I could not have imagined had I stayed in my home country my whole life.

I definitely encourage everyone to travel. But doing so long-term takes a special kind of person who's able to put up with a lot of inconvenience, hassle, and insecurity that you just wouldn't need to deal with if you'd just stayed home. (Of course this last bit wouldn't apply if "home" is some war-torn or economically depressed place compared to the countries you're traveling to.)

Re: Don't be rich, Live rich

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you 1000x for stating this. I've never heard of anyone doing anything significant and living this way. Before he made money selling books on how to design lifestyles, what did Chris Guillebeau do for money? Be a grad student, I think. (As in, live off his stipend.)

I've done it and I "do significant things." Instead of being grateful for somebody confirming your suspicions, you'll find it pays to investigate the truth.

A) What do you do that is significant (by SV norms, not your personal, subjective standard for self-satisfaction)? B) A string of corroborating anecdotes is not proof (notwithstanding a cliche about anecdotes * N == data for large N)

Let me be more clear about significance. My statement is that people don't do what is done in SV by trotting around the world, working from their laptops in internet cafes. What is done in SV?

* Start or work at billion dollar startups.

* Create disruptive technologies and build businesses around them.

* Network with the most brilliant minds in business, engineering, etc.

Creating an app that can pay the bill for a bungalow in Phuket (for example) is a great achievement and congratulations on being able to do it. You deserve all the awesome titles that you've listed in your profile.

However, it's not what I would call significant, by these standards. I'm sorry if you feel offended by my choice of the word significant, I really am, but I am saying that there is a difference in scale between what a globetrotter can do and "the rest of us" -- and there is a limitation on the former.

Re: Don't be rich, Live rich

#123
post #84

> Don't be rich, Live rich. Why not be rich and live rich. I get the "Live rich" part but that "Don't be rich" is unwarranted.

I believe the point is "Why wait UNTIL you're rich to enjoy a lifestyle perceived as only being available TO the rich."

Re: Don't be rich, Live rich

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done it and I "do significant things." Instead of being grateful for somebody confirming your suspicions, you'll find it pays to investigate the truth.

A) What do you do that is significant (by SV norms, not your personal, subjective standard for self-satisfaction)? B) A string of corroborating anecdotes is not proof (notwithstanding a cliche about anecdotes * N == data for large N) Let me be more clear about significance. My statement is that people don't do what is done in SV by trotting around the world, working from their laptops in internet cafes. What is done…

Not everybody lives in SV. By your logic, could someone who doesn't travel but lives somewhere else achieve anything significant?

Re: Don't be rich, Live rich

#125

This is fascinating, and I would really like to try this at some point. However, I am 30, married and have a 1 year old kid. Does anyone have any similar resources, examples, for people who have done this with kid(s)?

With kids this is the best I've found http://travelswithanineyearold.com/

Re: Don't be rich, Live rich

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) What do you do that is significant (by SV norms, not your personal, subjective standard for self-satisfaction)? B) A string of corroborating anecdotes is not proof (notwithstanding a cliche about anecdotes * N == data for large N) Let me be more clear about significance. My statement is that people don't do what is done in SV by trotting around the world, working from their laptops in internet cafes. What is done…

Not everybody lives in SV. By your logic, could someone who doesn't travel but lives somewhere else achieve anything significant?

I'm not making a statement about those people, but what I said still applies: the opportunities on that list are available in SV, and a small number of other places in the US. Not in Saigon or Amsterdam -- at least not to a large number of people.

HN is about news that happens mostly in SV, or is relevant to it. It's about startups -- high-risk, scalable businesses -- and SV is where they are (at least, many, many of the successful ones are). I'd expect that a solid majority of the readership is based in this area too.

My premise is this: people who choose to live and work in SV have huge opportunities that exist (almost) nowhere else. Sure, you can setup a consultancy and dabble in a few side projects while you make your way around the globe and have remarkable experiences.

But let's not pretend that, if you choose to do this, you are exposed to the same opportunities as the rest of us -- you're not.

Re: Don't be rich, Live rich

#127
post #73

Living abroad in your 20s is an unforgettable experience. I lived in Europe and Asia for most of the 1990s, and still look back wistfully at that time of my life. I gave up some early career "juice" but got so much more out of it. Note that doing what the OP did is far more difficult if you have children, although it is possible to work stable jobs in a single country for longer stints with kids.

'more difficult if you have children' seems like a huge understatement. Especially if they're school-aged.

yes, it is more difficult with kids. Still that does not mean impossible. I moved with my family 6 months to work in Bordeaux. -(France) Joppe (7y) and Bent (5y) went to a French school. Geike (2y)stayed home with her mother. None of the kids spoke French when we left. I was dreaming about this for years, I now realized that all the excuses I had for years, were just that. Excuses. Together with my kids I gave a presentation at the same BarCamp that Ine & Catherine did theirs. At the end I asked everyone: "Would you do it again?" 2 of the 3 kids said they would. My wife said yes but then for longer.

Re: Don't be rich, Live rich

#128

We've been doing this for three years now. This couple seemed to focus on having a year abroad, we've made it our lifestyle, and we're doing a startup (rather than consulting). I started this as a response to the "how to keep productive" question, but I'll try to address the other questions people have been asking in the thread later on. We also have the issue of taking some period of time to get back into the produc…

Hi there, Ine here from Nomadz.nu, one of the 2 girls of the presentation :) This post is really interesting, and about the same thing we'd say. We're European, so for us things are a bit different when it comes to insurance and retirement savings, but all in all it's pretty similar. Especially the part where people say: We can't do this because ... (fill in the dots) They can. Because we did. :)

Re: Don't be rich, Live rich

#129
post #34

It sounds nice if you can pull it off, but on the occasions where I've been continually moving from place to place I've found it much harder to actually get anything done. Continual travel adds cognitive and other entropic overheads which deplete your mental and energy real estate.

For us the solution was to rent an co-office space in Argentina (a great one btw: urbanstation.co.ar) In Thailand and South Africa this was less of a problem: in those places we had a small spot to work and we often went to internetcaffees in CapeTown, doing the real work at home, disconnected from the web. Which is immediately a good trick: disconnect from the internet and you'll get most of your work done: prepare work, mails etc. Then connect, send everything, get the mails, and disconnect again. GTD and sticking to it is a large part of making this work, otherwise you're or online on Facebook all the time, or working too much :)

Re: Don't be rich, Live rich

#130

This is fascinating, and I would really like to try this at some point. However, I am 30, married and have a 1 year old kid. Does anyone have any similar resources, examples, for people who have done this with kid(s)?

I moved with my family for 6 months with 3 kids: 7,5 and 2 year old.
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