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Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

drewdevault.com

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Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#121

Post by 2pEXgD0fZ5cF »

eric_cc wrote: post #65
knorker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But cars had value. They have value. They had value from day 1. Cryptocurrencies just don't. It's all smoke and mirrors, where everything would be better without the blockchain. Without irreversibility. Without everything about it. There are whole books about how terrible and useless it is. And please do what the article said: How much of your own money is dependent on you selling the lie of cryptocurrency or smart c…

> Cryptocurrencies just don't [have value]. It's all smoke and mirrors > super-immoral going-nowhere-moral tech lol what? Is US dollar moral? Is it not also "smoke-and-mirrors" by your definition since it's just paper that we all believe has value?

> Is US dollar moral? Is it not also "smoke-and-mirrors"

US Dollar and other "real" currencies are and can be used for payments and transactions (money in exchange for goods, services etc.). Cryptocurrencies are only converted to/from other currencies to make profits based on speculation.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#122

Post by ddevault »

cslarson wrote: post #105
knorker wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is really a complaint against Proof of Work based consensus protocols. I wouldn't say so. The multi-level marketing ponzi scheme things would still be present. > "Cryptocurrency" is also kind of a dumb term. Yes, but "crypto" means something else. > Everyone seems to still think this is about creating new currencies. It's not. It's about greed and creating money for yourself. Currencies are just more direct. E…

> The multi-level marketing ponzi scheme things would still be present. Yes, there are scams. But even in 2017 ICO days these were easy to spot - wailing and teeth nashing over ICO scams was dumb then and still is now. > Yes, but "crypto" means something else. I'm sorry but words mean what people who use them want them to mean in order to communicate ideas between them. Meanings evolve and words are co-opted and prob…

>Yes, there are scams. But even in 2017 ICO days these were easy to spot - wailing and teeth nashing over ICO scams was dumb then and still is now.

https://signal.org/blog/help-us-test-payments-in-signal/

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#123

Post by ddevault »

22c wrote: post #119
ddevault wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So it seems Drew is biased here, he is biased because his service is being used by thieves to make money. Thieves using my service to make money is what pushed me over the edge into writing this piece, but I have a well-documented history of criticising cryptocurrencies. Here are some examples on HN: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

You're asking people to document their own bias, so I think it is only fair to point out yours. Do you believe that cryptocurrency as a whole is an abject disaster? Do you support efforts to reform consensus with alternatives to Proof-of-Work (eg. Proof-of-Stake, Delegated Byzantine Fault Tolerance, etc.) or do you think cryptocurrency is a lost cause?

>You're asking people to document their own bias, so I think it is only fair to point out yours.

I think I have been pretty open with my own perspective in TFA.

>Do you believe that cryptocurrency as a whole is an abject disaster?

Yes. I just published an article titled "Cryptocurrency is an abject disaster".

>Do you support efforts to reform consensus with alternatives to Proof-of-Work [...] or do you think cryptocurrency is a lost cause

I addressed both of these in TFA, too.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#124

Post by pk_kinetic »

mijamo wrote: post #111
pk_kinetic wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a world where you can’t argue about anything without disclosing the exact amount of stake you have in it. Skin in the game works both ways. FOMO is a real thing.

Your comment is funny because in many countries all people that talk in a national assembly need to disclose their stakes. So yes I can imagine it, because a lot of parliaments work exactly like that. And I am not sure what "both ways" means but of course you have to disclose if you have taken a short position in the matter.

People who talk in a National Assembly have real influence on laws so conflict of interest is a real problem.

If the chair of the SEC comes out for or against crypto (or any financial product) of course we should know what investments he holds.

We’re arguing about a subject on a message board. It’s not going to have any influence whatsoever on the price or whether it fails or not.

I would hate to have to disclose the exact amount of Toyota stock I own anytime I argue with someone the merits of Toyota over Ford or Honda.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#125

Post by knorker »

yui43 wrote: post #71
knorker wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not ignore it, but take it into consideration. If I told you I earned $1M a year, you should keep that in mind when I say that we should lower income taxes for the betterment of the poor. It's a suspiciously self-serving conclusion for me to have, wouldn't you say?

What a weird opinion to hold in a society totally dominated by incentive. Serving yourself is the entire point since we have structured nearly all of human existence around incentive instead of command. Discounting the argument that it would help the poor (objectively) because it helps the person making the suggestion is like being angry at the sky for being blue. The incentives produced the outcome and should in no…

> What a weird opinion to hold in a society totally dominated by incentive.

Not totally, no. We are social animals. Also look at people who vote against their own financial benefit. I do.

But also it's not as direct. If I pay some more in taxes (along with everyone else) the idea is that I'll get to live in a better society. Something I could not otherwise buy.

> Discounting the argument that it would help the poor (objectively)

That's not what I said. I said take it into consideration. You're being hyperbolic.

In real life I want to reduce inequality because it's the right thing to do. If you don't believe that you can say that it's because I want to reduce the risk of me personally being victim of crime, and inequality breeds crime.

Are you honestly unaware of the concept of "conflict of interest"?

I'll throw you back another name: Occam. If you are arguing lowering taxes, because of a complicated Goldberg machine of an explanation on how it'll help the poor, maybe after having considered it all I'll find the explanation "and you'll gain $100k a year from it" to be a more plausible reason, and I'll be less likely to take the parts of the Rube Goldberg machine I didn't understand, or am hesitant about, at your word.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#126

Post by doggosphere »

shkkmo wrote: post #112
eric_cc wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so you see no value to: - DeFi - decentralized data storage. - a decentralized & censorship resistant video streaming platform. - Artists getting compensated fairly via NFT's. - Banking the bankless - DAO's (btw, how can DAO's work better without being decentralized? hahaha) - A decentralized and censorship resistant social network - Sythentics. What is a better solution to tokenizing assets in your opinion? and on a…

I see plenty of value in many of those issues. Some appear to be just jargon or beg the question. I see zero evidence that cryptocurrency is necessary or even beneficial in solving any of those problems.

That's because you think your currency is secure forever.

Ask Argentinians, Turks, Venezuelans, Zimbabweans, etc. what they think about their central banks.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#127

Post by pk_kinetic »

knorker wrote: post #113
pk_kinetic wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a world where you can’t argue about anything without disclosing the exact amount of stake you have in it. Skin in the game works both ways. FOMO is a real thing.

You do know that ethical journalists talking about stocks disclose if they are long or short on that stock, in the article they're writing, right?

We’re not journalists. We’re discussing a subject on a message board.

Besides, my original position was that it was bad form to ask for the exact amount of crypto someone holds.

I don’t ask for the exact amount of stock someone holds in Tesla when they are talking about how great Tesla is.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#128

Post by reducesuffering »

pk_kinetic wrote: post #124
mijamo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is funny because in many countries all people that talk in a national assembly need to disclose their stakes. So yes I can imagine it, because a lot of parliaments work exactly like that. And I am not sure what "both ways" means but of course you have to disclose if you have taken a short position in the matter.

People who talk in a National Assembly have real influence on laws so conflict of interest is a real problem. If the chair of the SEC comes out for or against crypto (or any financial product) of course we should know what investments he holds. We’re arguing about a subject on a message board. It’s not going to have any influence whatsoever on the price or whether it fails or not. I would hate to have to disclose the…

You don’t have to. However, TFA explicitly asked you for this discussion. You’re free to join the thousands of other discussions where there’s no ask to disclose stake. There’s value in one that does.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#129

Post by tim333 »

pk_kinetic wrote: post #87
kordlessagain wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we look at Lightning, it enables a full implementation of the 402 response code flow, which would allow for decentralized identity and payments in the use of machine learning networks for a wide variety of AI based systems. One such use case may end up being the "killer" use case for crypto and may make up for the speculative phase we're in now.

It seems rather poor form to ask someone to disclose their exact crypto holdings for the sake of legitimizing, or delegitimizating their position. Couldn’t it just be a binary yes or no? Disclosure: I own some crypto.

He doesn't say "exact crypto holdings." I'm sure something like disclosure - I hold some ETH would do.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#130

Post by knorker »

tjk_ wrote: post #82

I work for a large provider in the VCS/CI space. While I appreciate the varied opinions in the comments here on the perceived usefulness of Crypto, I think folks outside of the space simply do not understand how much time is being spent combating the issue. If we, for example, had a team of 20 working on our CI offering, we would have re-allocated at least 50% of them to work full-time on combating the miners. And th…

In short: Cryptocurrencies create a price floor for:

    * Electricity
    * Now hard drives? (some asshat made a "proof of space" system)
    * CI
    * Graphics cards
    * Any general computation
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