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Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

bbc.com

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Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#121

Post by sumedh »

Traster wrote: post #71
RestlessMind wrote: post #66

I think governments should go after cartels rather than monopolies. Google and Apple combined have a >99% market share for mobile OS/app store market share. They also impose a synchronized 30% fee cut. There is a case to be made for an antitrust behavior from this cartel.

Do you really think that they colluded though? The exact same result can be expected if they simply independently reacted to market conditions. It’d be very hard to prove illegal coordination.

Apple and Google colluded to not poach employees from one another, why do you think they wont collude again?

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#122

Post by moooo99 »

zepto wrote: post #113
ghayes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and Keurig has a monopoly on coffee if you own a Keurig machine and don't buy from Starbucks. While these corporate actions *are* anti-consumer, they do not generally fall in line with the standard definition of a monopoly, which includes looking at the the whole market, not just a sub-section of it. E.g. my local golf course also has a monopoly on golf balls while I'm in their pro-shop.

Are they anti-consumer? Many people seem to disagree. I want a Linux based phone with the performance of an iPhone and a decentralized App Store with an auditable chain of trust. I also want an information appliance that is trivial to use and completely managed by a third party I trust. Why can’t I have both?

They definitely are anti-consumer and nobody who actually looked into the topic would disagree. Apple has a monopoly on software distribution on their mobile devices and they force companies to use their IAP api which comes with a heavy fine, which leads to developers (rightfully) increasing the prices. The same goes for Google, the only argument that could be made in the benefit for Google is that it is possible to install Apps from other sources.

Apple is the gatekeeper for anything that gets on their mobile devices (they can't really be considered yours). Apple and the review process are the ones who decide what is a useful tool and what not, what could be considered harmful to their customers etc. This way their consumers missing out at a lot.

Many die hard Apple fans would argue with the perceived sense of security, but recent events perfectly demonstrate that even the most strict gatekeeper, the review process, is insufficient to provide security to unknown users. The best thing companies can do to enhance their users security is to educate them.

The software is not the only position where Apple shows monopolistic and anti-consumer behavior, their hardware repair is another great example but not the topic

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#123

Post by sumedh »

brap wrote: post #120

I find it scary that not a single person in this thread is against the idea of the government using its force against tech. Everyone’s just nodding in unison.

I find it scary that you trust Apple and Google and others who have admitted that they colluded to not poach employees from one another and suppress wages.

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#124

Post by bagacrap »

dilap wrote: post #39

I don't care or know if it counts as a "monopoly" (I guess I can use Android...), but as a consumer and human being, I would love it if governments compelled big companies to act more in the public interest and less in their own. In particular, I would love to be able to install 3rd party app stores and software w/o having to resort to jailbreaks or weird certificate hacks. To me, it seems obvious this would be a net…

is it actually a net win for society, or just a personal win for power users like those found on hn? Simply allowing all third party apps probably leads to lots of extra malware being installed on iPhones.

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#125

Post by myko »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #79
toyg wrote: post #74

This will be round 2 in the fight for formalizing the role of OS developers versus App developers. Round 1 was the MS antitrust case, the outcome of which was clearly too weak to survive in the long run. The definition of general-purpose Operating Systems should be formalized, and there should be a clear separation of roles: if you make an OS you cannot make apps and services, end of story. Then force Apple, Google,…

>there should be a clear separation of roles: if you make an OS you cannot make apps and services, end of story. This. How come the authorities cracked down hard on Microsoft in the 90's and early 2000's for exactly this but aren't doing the same with Apple and Google now? I remember the days when, at least in the EU, due to antitrust laws, Windows XP had to come without Windows Media Player and without Internet Expl…

> but aren't doing the same with Apple and Google now?

What is Google doing that is an issue here? One can install competing app stores on Android devices.

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#126

Post by matthewdgreen »

brap wrote: post #120

I find it scary that not a single person in this thread is against the idea of the government using its force against tech. Everyone’s just nodding in unison.

If you violate the various copyright, trademark and patent laws that protect the App Store business model, tech will have no problem instigating the government to use force on you. Ask Corellium or geohot.

ETA: The above may sound snarky, but my point is serious. This entire business model exists because of a series of powerful laws that are backed with the threat of force. To pretend that we can just leave the government out of this debate is foolish: it’s already there, enacting policy. There is no opt-out.

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#127

Post by Jochim »

brap wrote: post #120

I find it scary that not a single person in this thread is against the idea of the government using its force against tech. Everyone’s just nodding in unison.

What do you find scary about it? You're comment doesn't help me understand why we should be worried about the government reining them in.

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#128

Post by katbyte »

bagacrap wrote: post #124
dilap wrote: post #39

I don't care or know if it counts as a "monopoly" (I guess I can use Android...), but as a consumer and human being, I would love it if governments compelled big companies to act more in the public interest and less in their own. In particular, I would love to be able to install 3rd party app stores and software w/o having to resort to jailbreaks or weird certificate hacks. To me, it seems obvious this would be a net…

is it actually a net win for society, or just a personal win for power users like those found on hn? Simply allowing all third party apps probably leads to lots of extra malware being installed on iPhones.

Power users mostly imho. I give iPhones to family and friends I support because it’s locked down with less ability to install bad actor apps

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#129

Post by lucasyvas »

bagacrap wrote: post #124
dilap wrote: post #39

I don't care or know if it counts as a "monopoly" (I guess I can use Android...), but as a consumer and human being, I would love it if governments compelled big companies to act more in the public interest and less in their own. In particular, I would love to be able to install 3rd party app stores and software w/o having to resort to jailbreaks or weird certificate hacks. To me, it seems obvious this would be a net…

is it actually a net win for society, or just a personal win for power users like those found on hn? Simply allowing all third party apps probably leads to lots of extra malware being installed on iPhones.

It is a win - there is a similar model that we live in everyday that separates Government from Business. It is done in that way in an attempt to balance control.

A first-party only ecosystem is authoritarian and non-competitive. Apple's ecosystem in particular on iOS and iPad OS is akin to your government controlling everything that you can do.

There are several parallels that can be drawn between societal and technological infrastructure.

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#130

Post by zepto »

moooo99 wrote: post #122
zepto wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they anti-consumer? Many people seem to disagree. I want a Linux based phone with the performance of an iPhone and a decentralized App Store with an auditable chain of trust. I also want an information appliance that is trivial to use and completely managed by a third party I trust. Why can’t I have both?

They definitely are anti-consumer and nobody who actually looked into the topic would disagree. Apple has a monopoly on software distribution on their mobile devices and they force companies to use their IAP api which comes with a heavy fine, which leads to developers (rightfully) increasing the prices. The same goes for Google, the only argument that could be made in the benefit for Google is that it is possible to…

> They definitely are anti-consumer and nobody who actually looked into the topic would disagree.

This renders the rest of the comment meaningless in the context of a platform intended for curiousity and debate, so I didn’t read past it.

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